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	<title>Comments on: Newspoll on ETS: a clear case of push polling?</title>
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	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/28/newspoll-on-ets-a-clear-case-of-push-polling/</link>
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		<title>By: Richard McGuire </title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/28/newspoll-on-ets-a-clear-case-of-push-polling/#comment-4872</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard McGuire </dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4872</guid>
		<description>Yeah but Lindsay, when are we going to see, the likes of David Evans publish their theories about the missing &quot;upper tropical troposphere hotspot&quot;  in a peer reviewed, reputable science journal. Bettter still Lindsay, why don&#039;t you try your luck on science blogs like Deltoid, or BraveNewClimate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah but Lindsay, when are we going to see, the likes of David Evans publish their theories about the missing &#8220;upper tropical troposphere hotspot&#8221;  in a peer reviewed, reputable science journal. Bettter still Lindsay, why don&#8217;t you try your luck on science blogs like Deltoid, or BraveNewClimate.</p>
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		<title>By: Kenny</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/28/newspoll-on-ets-a-clear-case-of-push-polling/#comment-4873</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4873</guid>
		<description>As much as I like the article, I cannot help disagreeing with  John Armitage when he says regarding the Newspoll &quot; I understand that Newspoll is chasing some publicity for their polls and that’s fair enough.&quot;  Sorry John, dishonesty is dishonesty no matter how it&#039;s dressed up and should not be tolerated.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As for Lindsay&#039;s comment that the Earth is cooling and that people should look at the science, I ask Lindsay:&lt;br /&gt; - what scientific qualifications do you hold?&lt;br /&gt;- have you studied the IPCC report available at http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-syr.htm?&lt;br /&gt;- which long term meteorological observations do you disagree with?&lt;br /&gt;- which conclusions do you believe do not conform to the observations?&lt;br /&gt;- which mathematical models do you believe have errors in them, and &lt;br /&gt;- what mathematical models do you propose to replace them with?&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As much as I like the article, I cannot help disagreeing with  John Armitage when he says regarding the Newspoll &#8221; I understand that Newspoll is chasing some publicity for their polls and that’s fair enough.&#8221;  Sorry John, dishonesty is dishonesty no matter how it&#8217;s dressed up and should not be tolerated.</p>
<p>As for Lindsay&#8217;s comment that the Earth is cooling and that people should look at the science, I ask Lindsay:<br /> - what scientific qualifications do you hold?<br />- have you studied the IPCC report available at <a href="http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-syr.htm?" rel="nofollow">http://www.ipcc.ch/ipccreports/ar4-syr.htm?</a><br />- which long term meteorological observations do you disagree with?<br />- which conclusions do you believe do not conform to the observations?<br />- which mathematical models do you believe have errors in them, and <br />- what mathematical models do you propose to replace them with?</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/28/newspoll-on-ets-a-clear-case-of-push-polling/#comment-4874</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4874</guid>
		<description>Kenny, what&#039;s your scientific claim to fame? Yes, I have studied AR4, and there are things in there that point to a belief structure, not science. A 1000 year projection in temperature? A 1800 year projection of Greenland&#039;s ice cover? Give me a break!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I don&#039;t disagree with any of the long term met observations. Which don&#039;t you agree with? The fact that the Murray Darling basin has not seen a long term reduction in rainfall? reductions in global temperature since 2001 with all major temperature data repositories, despite AR4 and TAR predicting (whoops, should be projecting) increases in temp since 2000, even when holding CO2 constant at year 2000  levels!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Where is the upper tropical troposphere hotspot predicted by all models used for well mixed greenhouse gases. Care to explain the fact that it is nowhere to be found?&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Look at AR4, and the factors related to radiative forcing. LOSA (level of scientific understanding) is not exactly high for all factors, other factors are not incorporated, feedback mechanisms are mostly assumed to be positive (where in nature most feedbacks are negative), criticism by reviewers can be summarily dismissed by lead authors, who often cite their own work. Great peer review there. Perhaps some here need to learn a bit about peer review, and that just because something is in a peer reviewed journal doesn&#039;t make it right, any more than something not in a peer reviewed journal not making it wrong. I could go on, but...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kenny, what&#8217;s your scientific claim to fame? Yes, I have studied AR4, and there are things in there that point to a belief structure, not science. A 1000 year projection in temperature? A 1800 year projection of Greenland&#8217;s ice cover? Give me a break!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with any of the long term met observations. Which don&#8217;t you agree with? The fact that the Murray Darling basin has not seen a long term reduction in rainfall? reductions in global temperature since 2001 with all major temperature data repositories, despite AR4 and TAR predicting (whoops, should be projecting) increases in temp since 2000, even when holding CO2 constant at year 2000  levels!</p>
<p>Where is the upper tropical troposphere hotspot predicted by all models used for well mixed greenhouse gases. Care to explain the fact that it is nowhere to be found?</p>
<p>Look at AR4, and the factors related to radiative forcing. LOSA (level of scientific understanding) is not exactly high for all factors, other factors are not incorporated, feedback mechanisms are mostly assumed to be positive (where in nature most feedbacks are negative), criticism by reviewers can be summarily dismissed by lead authors, who often cite their own work. Great peer review there. Perhaps some here need to learn a bit about peer review, and that just because something is in a peer reviewed journal doesn&#8217;t make it right, any more than something not in a peer reviewed journal not making it wrong. I could go on, but&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Richard McGuire</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/28/newspoll-on-ets-a-clear-case-of-push-polling/#comment-4875</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard McGuire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4875</guid>
		<description>The &quot;Real science&quot;....&quot;The truth is out there for those who want to know&quot;....Er the problem is Lindsay, the &quot;Real science&quot; as you call it never seems to make it through the gauntlet of peer review, and find its way into reputable science journals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;Real science&#8221;&#8230;.&#8221;The truth is out there for those who want to know&#8221;&#8230;.Er the problem is Lindsay, the &#8220;Real science&#8221; as you call it never seems to make it through the gauntlet of peer review, and find its way into reputable science journals.</p>
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		<title>By: Marilyn</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/28/newspoll-on-ets-a-clear-case-of-push-polling/#comment-4876</link>
		<dc:creator>Marilyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4876</guid>
		<description>Lindsay you are a total birk who spends too much time reading the nonsense peddled by the likes of Andrew Bolt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you think things ain&#039;t still getting warmer try and live in Adelaide for a time.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;It is hotter and drier that at any time - as for the real science.   What would that be Lindsay?    The silly graph from 1998?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lindsay you are a total birk who spends too much time reading the nonsense peddled by the likes of Andrew Bolt.</p>
<p>If you think things ain&#8217;t still getting warmer try and live in Adelaide for a time.</p>
<p>It is hotter and drier that at any time - as for the real science.   What would that be Lindsay?    The silly graph from 1998?</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/28/newspoll-on-ets-a-clear-case-of-push-polling/#comment-4877</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4877</guid>
		<description>I am not so sure what is entirely wrong with the Newspoll question. I feel the results accurately show a refocus on the economy, and rightfully so.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The question style quoted on this page is very poor in my opinion:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;“On one hand the carbon pollution reduction scheme will increase the cost of petrol, electricity and gas. On the other hand the scheme will make the big polluters take responsibility for the damage they are doing to our environment and it will safeguard our children’s future. Taking both of these things into account do you think the Federal Government should speed up or delay the introduction of the carbon pollution reduction scheme?”&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;There is quite a bit of hyperbole in that question, for example: “safeguard our children’s future”. That is exaggeration and push polling to say the least. The fact that it will increase energy prices is an absolutely known fact, another factual statement is that it will put a price on emissions. To push the possible connection between the ETS and reducing damage to the environment as well as safeguarding our children’s future is not appropriate for gaining an unbiased opinion through polling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not so sure what is entirely wrong with the Newspoll question. I feel the results accurately show a refocus on the economy, and rightfully so.</p>
<p>The question style quoted on this page is very poor in my opinion:</p>
<p>“On one hand the carbon pollution reduction scheme will increase the cost of petrol, electricity and gas. On the other hand the scheme will make the big polluters take responsibility for the damage they are doing to our environment and it will safeguard our children’s future. Taking both of these things into account do you think the Federal Government should speed up or delay the introduction of the carbon pollution reduction scheme?”</p>
<p>There is quite a bit of hyperbole in that question, for example: “safeguard our children’s future”. That is exaggeration and push polling to say the least. The fact that it will increase energy prices is an absolutely known fact, another factual statement is that it will put a price on emissions. To push the possible connection between the ETS and reducing damage to the environment as well as safeguarding our children’s future is not appropriate for gaining an unbiased opinion through polling.</p>
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		<title>By: Lindsay</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/28/newspoll-on-ets-a-clear-case-of-push-polling/#comment-4878</link>
		<dc:creator>Lindsay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-4878</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t really think the only reason there is a change of feeling towards ETS being the global credit crisis. Quite clearly many, many people are waking up to the truth that the earth is not warming anymore, in fact cooling. I think the last writer hit the nail on the head with the comment &lt;br /&gt;&quot;Over seventy per cent of people agree that taking action on climate change will create opportunities for new jobs and new clean energy industries.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;Not only that, but how many more people will lose their big money jobs and funding when everyone learns of this complete farce that is going to ruin Australia.&lt;br /&gt;If you are interested just look at the science behind it, see the truth and Crikey, you guys should also examine the REAL science instead of continually mocking the scientists, calling them sceptics, and ultimately making a fool of yourselves and this otherwise great news service.&lt;br /&gt;The truth is out there for those who want to know and who aren&#039;t scared of the populist opinions that we are bombarded with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t really think the only reason there is a change of feeling towards ETS being the global credit crisis. Quite clearly many, many people are waking up to the truth that the earth is not warming anymore, in fact cooling. I think the last writer hit the nail on the head with the comment <br />&#8220;Over seventy per cent of people agree that taking action on climate change will create opportunities for new jobs and new clean energy industries.&#8221;<br />Not only that, but how many more people will lose their big money jobs and funding when everyone learns of this complete farce that is going to ruin Australia.<br />If you are interested just look at the science behind it, see the truth and Crikey, you guys should also examine the REAL science instead of continually mocking the scientists, calling them sceptics, and ultimately making a fool of yourselves and this otherwise great news service.<br />The truth is out there for those who want to know and who aren&#8217;t scared of the populist opinions that we are bombarded with.</p>
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