Comments on: Rundle08: Atlantic City, home of the forlorn http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/ now with extra source Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:02:37 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Burlington http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18921 Burlington Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18921 Another beautiful, informative and eloquent example of Mr Rundle's talent. God bless you Sir. Another beautiful, informative and eloquent example of Mr Rundle’s talent. God bless you Sir.

]]> By: Perry Gretton http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18922 Perry Gretton Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18922 Highly evocative, and perceptive too. The Times They Are A-Changin'... Highly evocative, and perceptive too. The Times They Are A-Changin’…

]]> By: Parrick http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18923 Parrick Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18923 The end is drawing near, that's a fact. At least the end of the prezedential chicken shoot. Thanks for the prism, Guy, a look at the turning to gray of the USA. I'll buy the book. The end is drawing near, that’s a fact. At least the end of the prezedential chicken shoot. Thanks for the prism, Guy, a look at the turning to gray of the USA. I’ll buy the book.

]]> By: Realist http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18924 Realist Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18924 I know that knocking the U.S. is a national pastime in Australia, but it is possible for Rundle to write an article in this series without denigrating the American cities he visits and rubbishing the people who live in them. I know that knocking the U.S. is a national pastime in Australia, but it is possible for Rundle to write an article in this series without denigrating the American cities he visits and rubbishing the people who live in them.

]]> By: Daniel http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18925 Daniel Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18925 The always brilliant David Simon has written a great article in The Guardian about the breakdown of American urban society, a theme touched on by Rundle here.<br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/sep/06/wire The always brilliant David Simon has written a great article in The Guardian about the breakdown of American urban society, a theme touched on by Rundle here.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/sep/06/wire

]]> By: guy rundle http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18926 guy rundle Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18926 A couple of replies: <br /><br />'a little bored' - if you were paying attention, you'll see I did a state by state analysis of the polls a week ago, and pointed out why the McCain campaign is fighting so desperately - because the Obama campaign has so many different pathways to success. They can win without either Ohio or Florida at this stage. <br /><br />'Kid from Bondi' - no, you're simply wrong about the history of Atlantic City. For about 60 years or so, it was a holiday destination for all social classes, from the rich on down, with accommodation from grand hotels on down to rooming houses. I don't know why you make the point about gambling in the tri-state area having always been illegal, since that was obviously included in "In 1976 NJ legalised gambling, the only state outside of Nevada to do so" remark I made. As for the 'America in decline' hysterical rave you go into...well it seems to match my hysterical rave in the body of the article, so I find it hard to see what the difference is. Other than, like most of the right, you've retreated into magical thinking - that to point out the deep cultural contradictions that got the west into this mess is somehow to barrack for it. Rather desperate, don't you think? <br />And for someone who doesn't like socialism much, you seem to have strange problems with me being paid a wage by a private media company to report for paying subscribers. We call this the market, KFB, literature is available. Or picture books. <br />Still, it all must be confusing for you, when a Republican president has socialised more of the US financial sector than any of his predecessors, so we'll make allowances for fused circuits.<br />One other thing, ah, what was it? Oh yeah. You tool. A couple of replies:

‘a little bored’ - if you were paying attention, you’ll see I did a state by state analysis of the polls a week ago, and pointed out why the McCain campaign is fighting so desperately - because the Obama campaign has so many different pathways to success. They can win without either Ohio or Florida at this stage.

‘Kid from Bondi’ - no, you’re simply wrong about the history of Atlantic City. For about 60 years or so, it was a holiday destination for all social classes, from the rich on down, with accommodation from grand hotels on down to rooming houses. I don’t know why you make the point about gambling in the tri-state area having always been illegal, since that was obviously included in “In 1976 NJ legalised gambling, the only state outside of Nevada to do so” remark I made. As for the ‘America in decline’ hysterical rave you go into…well it seems to match my hysterical rave in the body of the article, so I find it hard to see what the difference is. Other than, like most of the right, you’ve retreated into magical thinking - that to point out the deep cultural contradictions that got the west into this mess is somehow to barrack for it. Rather desperate, don’t you think?
And for someone who doesn’t like socialism much, you seem to have strange problems with me being paid a wage by a private media company to report for paying subscribers. We call this the market, KFB, literature is available. Or picture books.
Still, it all must be confusing for you, when a Republican president has socialised more of the US financial sector than any of his predecessors, so we’ll make allowances for fused circuits.
One other thing, ah, what was it? Oh yeah. You tool.

]]> By: Jane http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18927 Jane Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18927 Guy, stirring and poignant writing as always. Just beautiful. Never been to US of A but your descriptions sometimes fill me with despair. And as someone who works professionally with people with addictions please keep well and look after yourself. Look foward to the book. Guy, stirring and poignant writing as always. Just beautiful. Never been to US of A but your descriptions sometimes fill me with despair. And as someone who works professionally with people with addictions please keep well and look after yourself. Look foward to the book.

]]> By: Perry Gretton http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18928 Perry Gretton Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18928 C Northcote Parkinson in 1963 wrote "East and West" that predicted the shift of power from West to East. He included Russia in the West. C Northcote Parkinson in 1963 wrote “East and West” that predicted the shift of power from West to East. He included Russia in the West.

]]> By: James http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18929 James Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18929 Hmmm...Springsteen wrote Atlantic City in 1982. What a long slow death it has been then. Years of Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush.....so thanks for the long-winded eulogy/rant Guy. Not TOO sure what the point of it all actually was....cept to reprise some cheap Hunter S. imagery...<br /><br />Can do better, must do better, yes we can! yes we can! Hmmm…Springsteen wrote Atlantic City in 1982. What a long slow death it has been then. Years of Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush…..so thanks for the long-winded eulogy/rant Guy. Not TOO sure what the point of it all actually was….cept to reprise some cheap Hunter S. imagery…

Can do better, must do better, yes we can! yes we can!

]]> By: a little bored http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18930 a little bored Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18930 You're not saying there's to be a book! There's so much to be written by you that's missing--day after day.<br />One suggestion. Instead of getting carried away by the symplistic analyses suggesting Obama will win easil;y, do your own analysis using the State polls. If you do you will see that O's lead in Ohio and Florida is marginal-4- 5 points. If 2% of voters change their minds in those key states, this election is horribly, frighteningly close.O COULD still win whilst losing both, but in that case he'd need a few other States that Kerry couldn't win in 2004--Virginia looks good for him, but the other possible gains are still very tight You’re not saying there’s to be a book! There’s so much to be written by you that’s missing — day after day.
One suggestion. Instead of getting carried away by the symplistic analyses suggesting Obama will win easil;y, do your own analysis using the State polls. If you do you will see that O’s lead in Ohio and Florida is marginal-4- 5 points. If 2% of voters change their minds in those key states, this election is horribly, frighteningly close.O COULD still win whilst losing both, but in that case he’d need a few other States that Kerry couldn’t win in 2004 — Virginia looks good for him, but the other possible gains are still very tight

]]> By: The Kid From Bondi http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18931 The Kid From Bondi Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18931 I hesitated in writing this comment because I feel it is, in reality, a waste of time and effort .... however, here goes; Guy your preference or more accurately you bias and lack of understanding of the subject matter on which you opine, is profound. Your anti American socialist hectoring completely misses the fact and essence of AC. Gambling in the Tri State area has always been illegal. AC was set up for the hard core casino patrons (Steve Wynn's father ran the Bingo Parlours in the fifties and it's where Wynn learned his trade). AC was always a magnet for the down and out and disenfranchised lower end of the social and economic spectrum, because it was a cheap place to live if one was on welfare. All that notwithstanding, you accept and revel in the forgone conclusion that Obama be the next President and do so at the cost of impartiality and objectivity in not only this but all your posts. So, stand up, be proud and shout from the rooftops for all to hear " I Guy Rundle am a proud socialist pretending to be a journalist and make no apologies for it and will continue to do so as long as my expenses are paid by anyone . America is in decline and we will all suffer because of it and the real pathos of AC and it is quite heartbreaking to see the poverty alongside the excess, demands a far more insightful assessment than you seem to be able to provide. Unlike you I have actually spent time in AC and not on an expense paid self indulgent junket. .... I feel better now, thank you. I hesitated in writing this comment because I feel it is, in reality, a waste of time and effort …. however, here goes; Guy your preference or more accurately you bias and lack of understanding of the subject matter on which you opine, is profound. Your anti American socialist hectoring completely misses the fact and essence of AC. Gambling in the Tri State area has always been illegal. AC was set up for the hard core casino patrons (Steve Wynn’s father ran the Bingo Parlours in the fifties and it’s where Wynn learned his trade). AC was always a magnet for the down and out and disenfranchised lower end of the social and economic spectrum, because it was a cheap place to live if one was on welfare. All that notwithstanding, you accept and revel in the forgone conclusion that Obama be the next President and do so at the cost of impartiality and objectivity in not only this but all your posts. So, stand up, be proud and shout from the rooftops for all to hear ” I Guy Rundle am a proud socialist pretending to be a journalist and make no apologies for it and will continue to do so as long as my expenses are paid by anyone . America is in decline and we will all suffer because of it and the real pathos of AC and it is quite heartbreaking to see the poverty alongside the excess, demands a far more insightful assessment than you seem to be able to provide. Unlike you I have actually spent time in AC and not on an expense paid self indulgent junket. …. I feel better now, thank you.

]]> By: The Kid From Bondi http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18932 The Kid From Bondi Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18932 Just came back to see who took the bait and responded. Thanks Guy, for your considered opinion of calling me a fool. It is high praise coming from such an urbane, unbiased, impartial and well informed entertainer, like you. And hey as long as they keep paying you for your populist myopic observations ... good for you ... take the money and keep up the entertainment. By the way, AC stopped being a holiday destination for the well heeled before 1940 and the last time I looked AC was in NJ and the only place in NJ where gambling was semi legal before 1975 before which date there were no "legalised" casinos in AC ... "The 1964 Democratic convention and the press coverage it generated, however, cast a harsh light on Atlantic City, which by then was in the midst of a long period of economic decline" WIKI. And the 1975 Gambling Act referred only to CASINOs and applied ONLY to AC and not the rest of the Tri State area (and also from WIKI) the following "The introduction of gambling did not, however, quickly eliminate many of the urban problems that plagued Atlantic City. Many have argued that it only served to magnify those problems, as evidenced in the stark contrast between tourism-intensive areas and the adjacent impoverished working-class neighborhoods"<br /><br />Right wing, left wing, chicken wing .... everybody needs and deserves a soap box .... No?<br /> Just came back to see who took the bait and responded. Thanks Guy, for your considered opinion of calling me a fool. It is high praise coming from such an urbane, unbiased, impartial and well informed entertainer, like you. And hey as long as they keep paying you for your populist myopic observations … good for you … take the money and keep up the entertainment. By the way, AC stopped being a holiday destination for the well heeled before 1940 and the last time I looked AC was in NJ and the only place in NJ where gambling was semi legal before 1975 before which date there were no “legalised” casinos in AC … “The 1964 Democratic convention and the press coverage it generated, however, cast a harsh light on Atlantic City, which by then was in the midst of a long period of economic decline” WIKI. And the 1975 Gambling Act referred only to CASINOs and applied ONLY to AC and not the rest of the Tri State area (and also from WIKI) the following “The introduction of gambling did not, however, quickly eliminate many of the urban problems that plagued Atlantic City. Many have argued that it only served to magnify those problems, as evidenced in the stark contrast between tourism-intensive areas and the adjacent impoverished working-class neighborhoods”

Right wing, left wing, chicken wing …. everybody needs and deserves a soap box …. No?

]]> By: dermot http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18933 dermot Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18933 thank you for this this one is very good. I am sarting toreallylike this series. thank you for this this one is very good. I am sarting toreallylike this series.

]]> By: The Duke http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18934 The Duke Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18934 When I was a teenager, my uncle gave me a book called Decline of the West (Der Untergang des Abendlandes) by Oswald Spengler. It describes Western Civilization as a Faustian society. As in the legend of Faust. <br /><br />His description of the Faustian civilization is where the populace constantly strives for the unattainable, making the western man a proud but tragic figure, for while he strives and creates he secretly knows the actual goal he is aiming for will never be reached.<br /><br />That's happening now...whole cities are being wiped out by the mortgage blowback...I saw a program that predicted that Cleveland will disappear within five years with people moving out of homes because they can no longer afford to pay mountainous mortgages. <br /><br />Spengler was right. As is Guy, the West is finished.<br /><br />Whereas Guy wrote that within the last 24 hours, Oswald Spengler published The Decline of the West in 1918.<br /><br />This has been coming for a long, long time. Like an old red rattler. And we didn't get out it's way. <br /><br /> When I was a teenager, my uncle gave me a book called Decline of the West (Der Untergang des Abendlandes) by Oswald Spengler. It describes Western Civilization as a Faustian society. As in the legend of Faust.

His description of the Faustian civilization is where the populace constantly strives for the unattainable, making the western man a proud but tragic figure, for while he strives and creates he secretly knows the actual goal he is aiming for will never be reached.

That’s happening now…whole cities are being wiped out by the mortgage blowback…I saw a program that predicted that Cleveland will disappear within five years with people moving out of homes because they can no longer afford to pay mountainous mortgages.

Spengler was right. As is Guy, the West is finished.

Whereas Guy wrote that within the last 24 hours, Oswald Spengler published The Decline of the West in 1918.

This has been coming for a long, long time. Like an old red rattler. And we didn’t get out it’s way.

]]> By: dermot j mcGuire http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18935 dermot j mcGuire Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18935 ok kid from Bondi here goes until slightly after the Second World War, Atlantic City was a resort town catering to all classes. What killed that was the easy availability of air travel to places outside the New York and New Jersey area. why holiday in Atlantic City if you could go to say the Grand Canyon or further. Gambling has been legal in Atlantic City since 1976 at first strenuous efforts were made to try and keep organised crime out. These had failed by the 1980s largely due to corrupt labour unions.<br /><br />A little research and thinking perhaps ok kid from Bondi here goes until slightly after the Second World War, Atlantic City was a resort town catering to all classes. What killed that was the easy availability of air travel to places outside the New York and New Jersey area. why holiday in Atlantic City if you could go to say the Grand Canyon or further. Gambling has been legal in Atlantic City since 1976 at first strenuous efforts were made to try and keep organised crime out. These had failed by the 1980s largely due to corrupt labour unions.

A little research and thinking perhaps

]]> By: David Sanderson http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18936 David Sanderson Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18936 This McCain/Palin comic strip is good for a laugh (even better than the two jokers above).<br /><br />http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/10/21/tomo/<br /> This McCain/Palin comic strip is good for a laugh (even better than the two jokers above).

http://www.salon.com/comics/tomo/2008/10/21/tomo/

]]> By: MAD about Magpies http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18937 MAD about Magpies Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18937 Hey, Kid from Bondi, take a chill pill, the USA is on the slide, and the sad fact is, it's gunna take down half of the economic world with it!<br /><br />Guy's article is one of his better ones, and I have been enjoying his 'trip' around following the election. Face facts, McCain has shot himself in the foot with his Palin choice, and has lost the plot trying to regain ground. If Obama dosen't get in, then the USA is doomed!<br /><br />Keep up the good work Guy, and stay away from those addictions!! Hey, Kid from Bondi, take a chill pill, the USA is on the slide, and the sad fact is, it’s gunna take down half of the economic world with it!

Guy’s article is one of his better ones, and I have been enjoying his ‘trip’ around following the election. Face facts, McCain has shot himself in the foot with his Palin choice, and has lost the plot trying to regain ground. If Obama dosen’t get in, then the USA is doomed!

Keep up the good work Guy, and stay away from those addictions!!

]]> By: Dan from Dubai http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/21/rundle08-atlantic-city-home-of-the-forlorn/#comment-18938 Dan from Dubai Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-18938 But isn't that exactly what Guy was saying 'kid from Bondi' ?<br /><br />"no city suffered more from the increasing ability and willingness of Americans to go further abroad or their holidays from the 60 onwards. Cancun rose as the Jersey shoe fell and by the mid 70s, the place was bankrupt and wrecked."<br /><br />anyhoo, another good piece Guy, loving your work. Don't bother with this impartial, unbiased rubbish, I appreciate a journo who lives and breathes and emotes a story rather than 99% of the bland rubbish going around.<br />You're starting to sound a bit melancholy... chin up mate, the strength of human spirit is greater than any virtual monetary system created or destructed.. But isn’t that exactly what Guy was saying ‘kid from Bondi’ ?

“no city suffered more from the increasing ability and willingness of Americans to go further abroad or their holidays from the 60 onwards. Cancun rose as the Jersey shoe fell and by the mid 70s, the place was bankrupt and wrecked.”

anyhoo, another good piece Guy, loving your work. Don’t bother with this impartial, unbiased rubbish, I appreciate a journo who lives and breathes and emotes a story rather than 99% of the bland rubbish going around.
You’re starting to sound a bit melancholy… chin up mate, the strength of human spirit is greater than any virtual monetary system created or destructed..

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