Comments on: Can everyone calm the fudge down about the economy? http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/09/can-everyone-calm-the-fudge-down-about-the-economy/ now with extra source Tue, 24 Nov 2009 19:34:24 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Venise Alstergren http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/09/can-everyone-calm-the-fudge-down-about-the-economy/#comment-23924 Venise Alstergren Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23924 Bernard: thank you for the total good sense you write. Unfortunately the bourse is inhabited mainly by sheep; sheep who seem to enjoy panicking. Once there is a pronounced share-price slide, everyone wants to get in on the action. The press happily joins in. After all, most scribes argue, "Bad News Sells" So everyone acts like chooks that have lost their heads. Lo, the disaster, fueled by ignorance, gathers pace. Short sellers, have a ball. Depression is the thing they crave. Why, so that they can feel justified? Ain't nothin like stupidity to throw a half tonne of fuel to the fun.<br />Of course China will continue to buy our mineral wealth. Yes she relies on exports. Let America-which started the whole squalid thing-rush to dump equities. They started the whole thing. Let them stew in it.. As a country America is on the skids. When the Republicans win the election, it will be the final nail in the coffin for the USA, a country which has been on the skids since the early 1970s, but Australians, always in love with the big, the bold, and the brassy can't stand the thought of a powerless USA.<br />Why should Oz go into sackcloth and ashes because America is a fallen comet? Why should we trudge through the streets like penitents during the semana santa in Spain? Europe's problems, together with the country of which their head of state happens to be our overlord: England. Why continue with this association? Let Republican America bomb the s*it out of every country whose oil they want. Their problems are not our problems, unless we want it that way. Show some backbone for Chr*sts sake.<br />Does it occur to anyone that in their rush to unload Australian shares: there are people out there who are buying them? Bernard: thank you for the total good sense you write. Unfortunately the bourse is inhabited mainly by sheep; sheep who seem to enjoy panicking. Once there is a pronounced share-price slide, everyone wants to get in on the action. The press happily joins in. After all, most scribes argue, “Bad News Sells” So everyone acts like chooks that have lost their heads. Lo, the disaster, fueled by ignorance, gathers pace. Short sellers, have a ball. Depression is the thing they crave. Why, so that they can feel justified? Ain’t nothin like stupidity to throw a half tonne of fuel to the fun.
Of course China will continue to buy our mineral wealth. Yes she relies on exports. Let America-which started the whole squalid thing-rush to dump equities. They started the whole thing. Let them stew in it.. As a country America is on the skids. When the Republicans win the election, it will be the final nail in the coffin for the USA, a country which has been on the skids since the early 1970s, but Australians, always in love with the big, the bold, and the brassy can’t stand the thought of a powerless USA.
Why should Oz go into sackcloth and ashes because America is a fallen comet? Why should we trudge through the streets like penitents during the semana santa in Spain? Europe’s problems, together with the country of which their head of state happens to be our overlord: England. Why continue with this association? Let Republican America bomb the s*it out of every country whose oil they want. Their problems are not our problems, unless we want it that way. Show some backbone for Chr*sts sake.
Does it occur to anyone that in their rush to unload Australian shares: there are people out there who are buying them?

]]> By: RJG http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/09/can-everyone-calm-the-fudge-down-about-the-economy/#comment-23925 RJG Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23925 I was going to panic. It's a lot of fun. There's the adrenaline rush. The chance to say stupid things that people wouldn't normally say and of course the opportunity for gross overstatement with an eye on to the possibility government largesse.<br /><br />Everyone else seemed to panic. The government, the opposition and the Reserve Bank. But of course politicians love to panic, it's their subsitute for achievement. The RBA, has to pretend to panic, becuase after all money is a very serious business and if the Governor of the reserve bank didn't panic a little bit people would think he wasn't sound. <br /><br />Then I realised that the real economy, those people who make things ,dig things up, process things and provide real services to others was ticking along. It was the parasites of the finacial sector who needed to panic. They had lots to panic about. They have been found out!!. So I decided in the end not to panic at all, because as long as governments socialised all the losses, and kept the money flowing, the real economy would soldier on. It may not soldier on quite as quickly, but if those who matter keep their heads all will be well. I was going to panic. It’s a lot of fun. There’s the adrenaline rush. The chance to say stupid things that people wouldn’t normally say and of course the opportunity for gross overstatement with an eye on to the possibility government largesse.

Everyone else seemed to panic. The government, the opposition and the Reserve Bank. But of course politicians love to panic, it’s their subsitute for achievement. The RBA, has to pretend to panic, becuase after all money is a very serious business and if the Governor of the reserve bank didn’t panic a little bit people would think he wasn’t sound.

Then I realised that the real economy, those people who make things ,dig things up, process things and provide real services to others was ticking along. It was the parasites of the finacial sector who needed to panic. They had lots to panic about. They have been found out!!. So I decided in the end not to panic at all, because as long as governments socialised all the losses, and kept the money flowing, the real economy would soldier on. It may not soldier on quite as quickly, but if those who matter keep their heads all will be well.

]]> By: dave http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/09/can-everyone-calm-the-fudge-down-about-the-economy/#comment-23926 dave Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23926 re: Can everyone calm the fudge down about the economy? & Steve Keen on The 7.30 Report last night?<br /><br />Professor Keen insists that there is a "property bubble" .. <br />1) NSW has now had a couple of years to cool from the heat of the boom<br />2) the market has, and continues to make its adjustments (without too much pain)<br />3) property values generally seem to be reflecting "land value + value of improvements"<br />not "land value + value of improvements + bubble". (land value is influenced by cost of infrastructure & subdivision, area, scarcity, special features & demand) (value of improvements is influenced by construction cost, depreciation etc)<br /><br />Future falls in market value are likely to be the result of forced / distressed sales being taken as "true market evidence". And someone will use this to evidence a bubble. <br /><br />so then a) housing affordability b) household debt.<br />Current housing affordability is more likely to be the result of "Howards Wage Restraint" than any property bubble .. as is household debt. re: Can everyone calm the fudge down about the economy? & Steve Keen on The 7.30 Report last night?

Professor Keen insists that there is a “property bubble” ..
1) NSW has now had a couple of years to cool from the heat of the boom
2) the market has, and continues to make its adjustments (without too much pain)
3) property values generally seem to be reflecting “land value + value of improvements”
not “land value + value of improvements + bubble”. (land value is influenced by cost of infrastructure & subdivision, area, scarcity, special features & demand) (value of improvements is influenced by construction cost, depreciation etc)

Future falls in market value are likely to be the result of forced / distressed sales being taken as “true market evidence”. And someone will use this to evidence a bubble.

so then a) housing affordability b) household debt.
Current housing affordability is more likely to be the result of “Howards Wage Restraint” than any property bubble .. as is household debt.

]]> By: David Sanderson http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/09/can-everyone-calm-the-fudge-down-about-the-economy/#comment-23927 David Sanderson Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23927 Bernard, don't panic about the panic merchants. They're just trying to keep their jobs like everyone else. Bernard, don’t panic about the panic merchants. They’re just trying to keep their jobs like everyone else.

]]> By: Ben http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/09/can-everyone-calm-the-fudge-down-about-the-economy/#comment-23928 Ben Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23928 BK,<br /><br />It may be easy for you to dismiss Prof Keen as a "professional pessimist", and put him and his views in the same basket as you would put the global sensationalist media entities that we all know and love and are stupid enough to believe so often, however you fail to acknowledge the core message that Dr Keen has been trying to get across long before the current crises occured - that the role of debt in the realm of economics has been largely ignored by both the science and the powers that be for so long...this, coupled with irresponsible lending and an artificial "housing boom" of the highest speculative order, and here we are. And you don't think there is so much to worry about? Can you not appreciate the humanitarian implications that could eventuate? This isn't about those poor Wall St clowns you see in the paper lamenting the billions of dollars going before their eyes mate. <br /><br />Steve has been working this angle for some years now, has apparently copped a lot of ridicule and disdain from his peers for his views and theories (mind you, he loves it, fuel for the fire), and now that everything he has been saying is actually happening you turn around and call him a professional pessimist? You wouldn't happen to be one of those who've been bagging him all along would ya?<br /><br />I would call him a realist, one of the few people I've seen calling apples for apples...what, you would believe Bush when he says this bailout will stabilise everything, you think he has a clue what is going on?<br /><br />Steve Keen is being vindicated, he has been pushing warnings about this for a while now and he deserves to be recognised for his work, hence the growing number of high profile media appearances...sensationally or realistically...you tell me.<br /><br />By the way, you seem to blink a hell of a lot, you're not a reptilian shape shifter are you?<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Yes, he might be BK,

It may be easy for you to dismiss Prof Keen as a “professional pessimist”, and put him and his views in the same basket as you would put the global sensationalist media entities that we all know and love and are stupid enough to believe so often, however you fail to acknowledge the core message that Dr Keen has been trying to get across long before the current crises occured - that the role of debt in the realm of economics has been largely ignored by both the science and the powers that be for so long…this, coupled with irresponsible lending and an artificial “housing boom” of the highest speculative order, and here we are. And you don’t think there is so much to worry about? Can you not appreciate the humanitarian implications that could eventuate? This isn’t about those poor Wall St clowns you see in the paper lamenting the billions of dollars going before their eyes mate.

Steve has been working this angle for some years now, has apparently copped a lot of ridicule and disdain from his peers for his views and theories (mind you, he loves it, fuel for the fire), and now that everything he has been saying is actually happening you turn around and call him a professional pessimist? You wouldn’t happen to be one of those who’ve been bagging him all along would ya?

I would call him a realist, one of the few people I’ve seen calling apples for apples…what, you would believe Bush when he says this bailout will stabilise everything, you think he has a clue what is going on?

Steve Keen is being vindicated, he has been pushing warnings about this for a while now and he deserves to be recognised for his work, hence the growing number of high profile media appearances…sensationally or realistically…you tell me.

By the way, you seem to blink a hell of a lot, you’re not a reptilian shape shifter are you?

Yes, he might be

]]> By: Lucy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/10/09/can-everyone-calm-the-fudge-down-about-the-economy/#comment-23929 Lucy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23929 Face it: we're all just drama queens, everyone one of us. We love the idea that the System is going to collapse and we're going to be here for it! We love the fact that it was all brought on by the fatcats, who we never really liked, and now look what they've done. And we love the idea that finally, finally we're going to suffer the kind of privations our forebears withstood, with the world wars and the Depression and whatnot. Oh yes, we do. Because that would make us Worthy. Face it: we’re all just drama queens, everyone one of us. We love the idea that the System is going to collapse and we’re going to be here for it! We love the fact that it was all brought on by the fatcats, who we never really liked, and now look what they’ve done. And we love the idea that finally, finally we’re going to suffer the kind of privations our forebears withstood, with the world wars and the Depression and whatnot. Oh yes, we do. Because that would make us Worthy.

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