Comments on: Rundle 08: A political and cultural crisis of capitalism http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/ now with extra source Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:02:21 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Kevin Charles Herbert http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23114 Kevin Charles Herbert Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23114 Tell it like it is Guy...nice work. Tell it like it is Guy…nice work.

]]> By: Jim Spithill http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23115 Jim Spithill Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23115 Dear Guy Rundle<br />Greatly appreciate your comments and analysis, spoiled only by the recent resort to f-cked and c-nt. Dear Guy Rundle
Greatly appreciate your comments and analysis, spoiled only by the recent resort to f-cked and c-nt.

]]> By: Daniel http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23116 Daniel Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23116 John James is so cute when he is manic and incoherent. It's adorable. :) John James is so cute when he is manic and incoherent. It’s adorable. :)

]]> By: Marion http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23117 Marion Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23117 Before 1996 John Howard and his Liberals were horrified by the vast size of Australian's foreign debt, they charged about the country in an imported car screeching their consternation and severely rebuked the Keating government for allowing such a catastrophe to occur. During the Howard/Costello years of control of financial matters the personal foreign debt of Australians more than trebled and that great Treasurer Peter Costello declared that it was appropriate for Australians to take on large debts because they could afford to pay. I hope he was right. Before 1996 John Howard and his Liberals were horrified by the vast size of Australian’s foreign debt, they charged about the country in an imported car screeching their consternation and severely rebuked the Keating government for allowing such a catastrophe to occur. During the Howard/Costello years of control of financial matters the personal foreign debt of Australians more than trebled and that great Treasurer Peter Costello declared that it was appropriate for Australians to take on large debts because they could afford to pay. I hope he was right.

]]> By: John James http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23118 John James Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23118 ".we have seen the first glimpse of the shores of socialism.." Oh, please! This is like one of those late night horror movies, 'Return of the Zombies'. Here they come, the old marxists and socialists rising out of the ground, staring blankly ahead of themselves, arms outstretched, mumbling "come to meeee!" Fidel, all is forgiven! “.we have seen the first glimpse of the shores of socialism..” Oh, please! This is like one of those late night horror movies, ‘Return of the Zombies’. Here they come, the old marxists and socialists rising out of the ground, staring blankly ahead of themselves, arms outstretched, mumbling “come to meeee!” Fidel, all is forgiven!

]]> By: Tim http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23119 Tim Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23119 I reckon that today will go down as the day China won World War 3. They won't even have to fire a shot - just call in the loans and watch the US collapse. <br /><br />What you've written here, Guy, is either completely true or complete crap, but we won't know until years from now. Great journalism! I reckon that today will go down as the day China won World War 3. They won’t even have to fire a shot - just call in the loans and watch the US collapse.

What you’ve written here, Guy, is either completely true or complete crap, but we won’t know until years from now. Great journalism!

]]> By: Stevo the Working Twistie http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23120 Stevo the Working Twistie Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23120 Why does is always have to be a "left vs right" p*ssing contest? Perhaps there is another way, one that doesn't rely on Wall St pyramid schemes (or Florida land booms, or Tulip futures bubbles), and doesn't require the means of production to be controlled by a centralised "revolutionary" apparatus? Keep on fighting the same arguments and we'll keep on getting the same results... Why does is always have to be a “left vs right” p*ssing contest? Perhaps there is another way, one that doesn’t rely on Wall St pyramid schemes (or Florida land booms, or Tulip futures bubbles), and doesn’t require the means of production to be controlled by a centralised “revolutionary” apparatus? Keep on fighting the same arguments and we’ll keep on getting the same results…

]]> By: David Sanderson http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23121 David Sanderson Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23121 If you love JamesK's logic then you will love this clip of Sarah Palin and the media. She reads "all of 'em" but which ones particularly she is not so sure of. However, not to worry because she is a maverick and mavericks can fix anything.<br /><br />http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9go38MgZ4w8&eurl=http://talkingpointsmemo.com/<br /> If you love JamesK’s logic then you will love this clip of Sarah Palin and the media. She reads “all of ‘em” but which ones particularly she is not so sure of. However, not to worry because she is a maverick and mavericks can fix anything.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9go38MgZ4w8&eurl=http://talkingpointsmemo.com/

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23122 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23122 No-one is blaming the average person for getting too much into debt. John Howard was the one who encouraged them to borrow more because of the [temporarily] increased value of their houses. This was a failure of leadership. We had a debt-fuelled boom that went on far too long and it reached into the most vulnerable parts of the economy. Simultaneously, more fuel was poured on the fire by pro-cyclical fiscal spending. The weakest sector of the economy, being the household balance sheet, is the most stretched. The strongest sector, the federal government, is ungeared. The sector which used to wear most of the pain of economic contractions, publicly listed companies, are mostly conservatively geared and free of obligations to their workers. The blame for the Australian housing bust lies with the PM who claimed credit for the boom. His legacy hangs as heavily as an albatross around his neck. No-one is blaming the average person for getting too much into debt. John Howard was the one who encouraged them to borrow more because of the [temporarily] increased value of their houses. This was a failure of leadership. We had a debt-fuelled boom that went on far too long and it reached into the most vulnerable parts of the economy. Simultaneously, more fuel was poured on the fire by pro-cyclical fiscal spending. The weakest sector of the economy, being the household balance sheet, is the most stretched. The strongest sector, the federal government, is ungeared. The sector which used to wear most of the pain of economic contractions, publicly listed companies, are mostly conservatively geared and free of obligations to their workers. The blame for the Australian housing bust lies with the PM who claimed credit for the boom. His legacy hangs as heavily as an albatross around his neck.

]]> By: Tyler Durden http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23123 Tyler Durden Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23123 Best analysis of the global financial meltdown so far. The things you own end up owning you. But that's me, I could be wrong, maybe it's a terrible tragedy. In Guy we trust. <br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEFYOajzyD0 Best analysis of the global financial meltdown so far. The things you own end up owning you. But that’s me, I could be wrong, maybe it’s a terrible tragedy. In Guy we trust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEFYOajzyD0

]]> By: John James # 2 http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23124 John James # 2 Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23124 What alot of Left wing bilge. I can't believe it! Talk about arm chair socialists and they're all probably driving Mercedes! Some of these postings are classics, just "rolled gold" as the Djs say. First there is Tom's "peace, democracy and sustainabilty are the real goals, not wealth.." Funny, but the only peaceful and democratic nations are the wealthy. The only countries in a position to do anything about the environment are the wealthy! Did you see the eastern European experiment in centrally planned economies and ownership by the' proleteriat' of the means of production and distribution.It's called a DESERT! ( economic, cultural, spirtual ) <br />Then there is this piece of socialist dreaming from John( the government made me do it ) Goldbaum " we had a debt fuelled boom!" We had a productivity fuelled boom. We enjoy unprecedented advances in longevity, health and well being that our grandparents would have scarcely dreamed possible.<br />Lucy's flying the hammer and sickle again! Ah, the bourgeoise Lucy! The hide of them wanting to improve their lot without the 'Dear Leader' saying it was okay. And then this classic from Marion, another of the old Central Committee comrades. " ..the John Howard and the Liberals.. horrified by the size of Australia's foreign debt.." Dead right Marion. It took Howard 12 years to convince those boofhead Labor economists that we need a SURPLUS. And guess what Swan, Rudd and Tanner are saying will now allow Australia to come through this storm relatively unscathed? Our surplus! Give that lady a cigar.( made in Cuba, of course ) What alot of Left wing bilge. I can’t believe it! Talk about arm chair socialists and they’re all probably driving Mercedes! Some of these postings are classics, just “rolled gold” as the Djs say. First there is Tom’s “peace, democracy and sustainabilty are the real goals, not wealth..” Funny, but the only peaceful and democratic nations are the wealthy. The only countries in a position to do anything about the environment are the wealthy! Did you see the eastern European experiment in centrally planned economies and ownership by the’ proleteriat’ of the means of production and distribution.It’s called a DESERT! ( economic, cultural, spirtual )
Then there is this piece of socialist dreaming from John( the government made me do it ) Goldbaum ” we had a debt fuelled boom!” We had a productivity fuelled boom. We enjoy unprecedented advances in longevity, health and well being that our grandparents would have scarcely dreamed possible.
Lucy’s flying the hammer and sickle again! Ah, the bourgeoise Lucy! The hide of them wanting to improve their lot without the ‘Dear Leader’ saying it was okay. And then this classic from Marion, another of the old Central Committee comrades. ” ..the John Howard and the Liberals.. horrified by the size of Australia’s foreign debt..” Dead right Marion. It took Howard 12 years to convince those boofhead Labor economists that we need a SURPLUS. And guess what Swan, Rudd and Tanner are saying will now allow Australia to come through this storm relatively unscathed? Our surplus! Give that lady a cigar.( made in Cuba, of course )

]]> By: Lucy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23125 Lucy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23125 Ah yes, it's nice to see the hammer and sickle out flying again, I was starting to think all that northern exposure had turned Guy into a standard-issue, Stuff White People Like liberal. It certainly feels like times are changing... then again it was only six weeks ago the 'Labor' Party was trying to privatise electricity supply, so who knows. Ah yes, it’s nice to see the hammer and sickle out flying again, I was starting to think all that northern exposure had turned Guy into a standard-issue, Stuff White People Like liberal. It certainly feels like times are changing… then again it was only six weeks ago the ‘Labor’ Party was trying to privatise electricity supply, so who knows.

]]> By: Tom McLoughlin http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23126 Tom McLoughlin Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23126 Keep voting Green folks, not because they are Solomon but because peace democracy and sustainability are the real goals, not wealth, and at least they have it in their platform. Listening to Garnaut today and you would get the impression there really is no hope of avoiding cataclysmic climate change. If this slows down carbon emissions I for one will experience relief even as my super bites the dust. Keep voting Green folks, not because they are Solomon but because peace democracy and sustainability are the real goals, not wealth, and at least they have it in their platform. Listening to Garnaut today and you would get the impression there really is no hope of avoiding cataclysmic climate change. If this slows down carbon emissions I for one will experience relief even as my super bites the dust.

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23127 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23127 Marion, Peter Costello also suckered rich 60 year olds to put one million dollars into their super just prior to the stock market plunge. Many of them put in the proceeds of the sale of their small businesses. Some of them borrowed against real estate investments to get the super tax concessions. They are all screaming blue murder now their wealth has fallen 30 percent. I don't think they will regard the Howard Government as good economic managers. Marion, Peter Costello also suckered rich 60 year olds to put one million dollars into their super just prior to the stock market plunge. Many of them put in the proceeds of the sale of their small businesses. Some of them borrowed against real estate investments to get the super tax concessions. They are all screaming blue murder now their wealth has fallen 30 percent. I don’t think they will regard the Howard Government as good economic managers.

]]> By: David Sanderson http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23128 David Sanderson Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23128 The thing you are forgetting Guy, with your fancypants analysis,is that John and Sarah are mavericks and there is nothing that mavericks can't fix. That's why they're mavericks! Can't you see that? God himself was a maverick and are you telling me that he couldn't fix this? Man, you are so dumb. The thing you are forgetting Guy, with your fancypants analysis,is that John and Sarah are mavericks and there is nothing that mavericks can’t fix. That’s why they’re mavericks! Can’t you see that? God himself was a maverick and are you telling me that he couldn’t fix this? Man, you are so dumb.

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23129 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23129 JamesK, you are fucking paranoid! I didn't blame John Howard for people being fatter and sicker. I simply pointed out the error in John James' rant. All I blame Howard and Costello for is the pro-cyclical fiscal stimulus and the active encouragement of the debt-fuelled spending binge which caused the housing bubble which has now burst. If you claim credit for the boom, you have to accept the blame for the bust. As for being a fucking leftist loon, I've previously been criticised as a market fundamentalist, you right-wing goon. JamesK, you are fucking paranoid! I didn’t blame John Howard for people being fatter and sicker. I simply pointed out the error in John James’ rant. All I blame Howard and Costello for is the pro-cyclical fiscal stimulus and the active encouragement of the debt-fuelled spending binge which caused the housing bubble which has now burst. If you claim credit for the boom, you have to accept the blame for the bust. As for being a fucking leftist loon, I’ve previously been criticised as a market fundamentalist, you right-wing goon.

]]> By: robert http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23130 robert Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23130 The line "...about different models of reality" reminded me of something Phillip K. Dick is supposed to have said ... here it is: Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away. <br /><br />The current economic crisis is forcing people to abandon their beliefs and face up to reality that won't go away. <br /><br />Hopefully our environment won't have to get into the same state before people begin to see that reality. The line “…about different models of reality” reminded me of something Phillip K. Dick is supposed to have said … here it is: Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn’t go away.

The current economic crisis is forcing people to abandon their beliefs and face up to reality that won’t go away.

Hopefully our environment won’t have to get into the same state before people begin to see that reality.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23131 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23131 John Goldbaum Excerpts(!): "No-one is blaming the average person for getting too much into debt. John Howard was the one who encouraged them to borrow more because of the [temporarily] increased value of their houses. This was a failure of leadership...The blame for the Australian housing bust lies with the PM who claimed credit for the boom. His legacy hangs as heavily as an albatross around his neck....Peter Costello also suckered rich 60 year olds to put one million dollars into their super just prior to the stock market plunge....I don't think they will regard the Howard Government as good economic managers......We didn't have a productivity fuelled boom. Productivity fell. Retirees are experiencing longer lives and better health and well being but workers and their children and grandchildren are getting fatter and sicker........JamesK, you are fucking paranoid! I didn't blame John Howard for people being fatter and sicker"<br /><br />Well...ok...if you say so John! John Goldbaum Excerpts(!): “No-one is blaming the average person for getting too much into debt. John Howard was the one who encouraged them to borrow more because of the [temporarily] increased value of their houses. This was a failure of leadership…The blame for the Australian housing bust lies with the PM who claimed credit for the boom. His legacy hangs as heavily as an albatross around his neck….Peter Costello also suckered rich 60 year olds to put one million dollars into their super just prior to the stock market plunge….I don’t think they will regard the Howard Government as good economic managers……We didn’t have a productivity fuelled boom. Productivity fell. Retirees are experiencing longer lives and better health and well being but workers and their children and grandchildren are getting fatter and sicker……..JamesK, you are fucking paranoid! I didn’t blame John Howard for people being fatter and sicker”

Well…ok…if you say so John!

]]> By: You Beaut http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23132 You Beaut Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23132 Blue Monday?<br /><br />"how does it feel..." Blue Monday?

“how does it feel…”

]]> By: Alf Liebhold http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23133 Alf Liebhold Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23133 Guy Rundle has grasped the meaning of the meltdown. His clear exposition can be understood by anyone, but not by the finance gurus (who still confuse cause and effect).<br /><br />Crikey.com deserves great credit for publishing what the rest of the media world has not (maybe cannot) understand ie the dominance of Finance Capital was the result, not the cause, of failure of Main Street Capital.<br /><br />No point in blaming anyone. The crisis was inevitable, given the rule of the "Free Market" system. Guy Rundle has grasped the meaning of the meltdown. His clear exposition can be understood by anyone, but not by the finance gurus (who still confuse cause and effect).

Crikey.com deserves great credit for publishing what the rest of the media world has not (maybe cannot) understand ie the dominance of Finance Capital was the result, not the cause, of failure of Main Street Capital.

No point in blaming anyone. The crisis was inevitable, given the rule of the “Free Market” system.

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23134 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23134 John James, your second post was wishful thinking. We didn't have a productivity fuelled boom. Productivity fell. Retirees are experiencing longer lives and better health and well being but workers and their children and grandchildren are getting fatter and sicker. John James, your second post was wishful thinking. We didn’t have a productivity fuelled boom. Productivity fell. Retirees are experiencing longer lives and better health and well being but workers and their children and grandchildren are getting fatter and sicker.

]]> By: Benjamin Shah http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23135 Benjamin Shah Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23135 Nice article. The spawn of Hayek et al have hollowed out our societies leaving fragile shells whose ticking heart lies in a far away East Asian sweat shop. There was a popular term floating around a few years ago that describes the fumes Guy says the West is running on, the 'post industrial economy'. It may take a decade or two of pain a misery, but maybe the idea will re-emerge that politics and economy go together, one is not subservient to the other. Governments of the world will strike a ‘new deal’ to rebuild society, people will be citizens, not consumers and the idea of choice will no longer supplant the idea of consensus. However, the ghost of Hayek will surely be waiting in the wings and the day will come when the many will grow too strong and the few will drive a wedge between them and pick them off one by one until a day will come when a Labor party will espouse the same drivel as the self proclaimed aristocratic heirs to the earth. Nice article. The spawn of Hayek et al have hollowed out our societies leaving fragile shells whose ticking heart lies in a far away East Asian sweat shop. There was a popular term floating around a few years ago that describes the fumes Guy says the West is running on, the ‘post industrial economy’. It may take a decade or two of pain a misery, but maybe the idea will re-emerge that politics and economy go together, one is not subservient to the other. Governments of the world will strike a ‘new deal’ to rebuild society, people will be citizens, not consumers and the idea of choice will no longer supplant the idea of consensus. However, the ghost of Hayek will surely be waiting in the wings and the day will come when the many will grow too strong and the few will drive a wedge between them and pick them off one by one until a day will come when a Labor party will espouse the same drivel as the self proclaimed aristocratic heirs to the earth.

]]> By: rm http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23136 rm Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23136 I love how the ad-sense picks ads for trading CFDs on your mobile as the most appropriate for this article.... <br /><br />Hilarious! I love how the ad-sense picks ads for trading CFDs on your mobile as the most appropriate for this article….

Hilarious!

]]> By: duffer http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23137 duffer Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23137 Where's a Christian Kerr-shaped counterweight when you need one? Where’s a Christian Kerr-shaped counterweight when you need one?

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/30/rundle-08-a-political-and-cultural-crisis-of-capitalism/#comment-23138 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23138 So John Goldbaum, "fatter and sicker" workers and their children and grandchildren are Johnnie Howard's fault. <br /><br />That probably makes perfect sense to leftist loons...... So John Goldbaum, “fatter and sicker” workers and their children and grandchildren are Johnnie Howard’s fault.

That probably makes perfect sense to leftist loons……

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