Comments on: Blow up the pokies… but not at the expense of the pub http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/ now with extra source Sun, 22 Nov 2009 06:44:24 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Libby Mitchell http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16293 Libby Mitchell Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16293 “Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust.” - Rev. Martin Luther King ...<br />www.stoppredatorygambling.org<br /><br />While we all argue the fine print and delay...the gambling industry is laughing all the way to the bank! Check that web site...a US group has hit it on the head....Predatory gambling invades our human rights....!! Nick Xenophon at least had the guts to tell the gambling industry that it was unethical and uncaring...greedy to the core! Fielding is at least trying to save massive numbers (never admitted...but they know the "1-2% harmed only" figures are incorrect..!) citizens from harm...whilst reducing an industry without killing it completely. What are YOU adding here to debate Alex?<br /><br />It is a bloody disgrace if Australia cannot survive without bleeding its citizens to death! You should be ashamed of yourself Alex....you are being as trite, dismissive and simplistic as they (our governments and gambling industry) are in attacking the problems of poker machine harms.<br /><br />I am SO sick of hearing the Pro-Pokies mob telling citizens to be 'responsible'....when clearly they themselves are NOT!! They know that our prevailing attitudes towards gambling and gambling addicts are based on old values centuries old....yet we are dealing with a modern, rapaciously efficient, killer industry here....it is not just a matter of frowning on a game of 'two up' beind the pub! <br /><br />WE need to learn about this predatory industry...disguising its dangerous products as 'mere games'! <br /><br />Please check that site out and add your name to the list of supporters? Join it and let's attack the issue globally? Let's start a real conversation...but please Alex do not accuse ME now of 'shallow popularism' either...if anything YOU are the one playing up to the majority audience! And in a very shallow way at that! “Any law that uplifts human personality is just. Any law that degrades human personality is unjust.” - Rev. Martin Luther King …
http://www.stoppredatorygambling.org

While we all argue the fine print and delay…the gambling industry is laughing all the way to the bank! Check that web site…a US group has hit it on the head….Predatory gambling invades our human rights….!! Nick Xenophon at least had the guts to tell the gambling industry that it was unethical and uncaring…greedy to the core! Fielding is at least trying to save massive numbers (never admitted…but they know the “1-2% harmed only” figures are incorrect..!) citizens from harm…whilst reducing an industry without killing it completely. What are YOU adding here to debate Alex?

It is a bloody disgrace if Australia cannot survive without bleeding its citizens to death! You should be ashamed of yourself Alex….you are being as trite, dismissive and simplistic as they (our governments and gambling industry) are in attacking the problems of poker machine harms.

I am SO sick of hearing the Pro-Pokies mob telling citizens to be ‘responsible’….when clearly they themselves are NOT!! They know that our prevailing attitudes towards gambling and gambling addicts are based on old values centuries old….yet we are dealing with a modern, rapaciously efficient, killer industry here….it is not just a matter of frowning on a game of ‘two up’ beind the pub!

WE need to learn about this predatory industry…disguising its dangerous products as ‘mere games’!

Please check that site out and add your name to the list of supporters? Join it and let’s attack the issue globally? Let’s start a real conversation…but please Alex do not accuse ME now of ‘shallow popularism’ either…if anything YOU are the one playing up to the majority audience! And in a very shallow way at that!

]]> By: Mac http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16294 Mac Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16294 send send

]]> By: A. Adams http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16295 A. Adams Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16295 After calling our pokie addiction a "national scandal" I expected Alex Mitchell to praise Fielding's plan with a "Hooray." Instead he calls it "shallow populism." It doesn't compute, Alex. What's your plan to rectify the scandal? After calling our pokie addiction a “national scandal” I expected Alex Mitchell to praise Fielding’s plan with a “Hooray.” Instead he calls it “shallow populism.” It doesn’t compute, Alex. What’s your plan to rectify the scandal?

]]> By: Ian McAuley http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16296 Ian McAuley Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16296 OK -- state governments might lose some pokie tax, but what people don't put through pokies they will spend elsewhere, and state governments pick up the GST. And will pubs necessarily lose out? Not if they can attract back those patrons who have been turned away by pokies? OK — state governments might lose some pokie tax, but what people don’t put through pokies they will spend elsewhere, and state governments pick up the GST. And will pubs necessarily lose out? Not if they can attract back those patrons who have been turned away by pokies?

]]> By: Lisa Crago http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16297 Lisa Crago Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16297 Really badly written piece. I too am still trying to 'get' the 'point'. Most of our local pubs have been taken over by Woolworths - Food petrol and now pokies and booze. Even the USA does not allow such takeovers. Our local RSLdoes not have pokie machines and it is a wonderful place to have a quiet drink and chat. Naturally this RSL is more interested in its patrons than shareholders.<br />I choose not to gamble. At 45yrs my cousin put his last $300 in a poker machine and then killed himself. A middle aged man with children who gambled his life away. Really badly written piece. I too am still trying to ‘get’ the ‘point’. Most of our local pubs have been taken over by Woolworths - Food petrol and now pokies and booze. Even the USA does not allow such takeovers. Our local RSLdoes not have pokie machines and it is a wonderful place to have a quiet drink and chat. Naturally this RSL is more interested in its patrons than shareholders.
I choose not to gamble. At 45yrs my cousin put his last $300 in a poker machine and then killed himself. A middle aged man with children who gambled his life away.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16298 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16298 Libby Mitchell, I realise this may come as an enormous and earth shatteringly mortifying insight for you but:<br /><br />1. Crikey has little or no reputation for honesty.<br /><br />2."acute" means neither precise nor accurate<br /><br />This problem is a 'chronic' disease of addiction to money by state governments, pubs and clubs.<br /><br />5 - 15% of gamblers are problem gamblers depending on the game. It is an enormous problem for our society with huge costs (much indirect and hidden) to society. <br /><br />Instead of lauding them, I notice Crikey mostly belittles Xenophon and Fielding. <br /><br />And where is Rudd with his righteous indignation, evident on this subject during the election campaign?..... Perhaps awaiting one of his myriad committees to report? Or has state Labor got to him as with the Murray? Libby Mitchell, I realise this may come as an enormous and earth shatteringly mortifying insight for you but:

1. Crikey has little or no reputation for honesty.

2.”acute” means neither precise nor accurate

This problem is a ‘chronic’ disease of addiction to money by state governments, pubs and clubs.

5 - 15% of gamblers are problem gamblers depending on the game. It is an enormous problem for our society with huge costs (much indirect and hidden) to society.

Instead of lauding them, I notice Crikey mostly belittles Xenophon and Fielding.

And where is Rudd with his righteous indignation, evident on this subject during the election campaign?….. Perhaps awaiting one of his myriad committees to report? Or has state Labor got to him as with the Murray?

]]> By: Richard Wolff http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16299 Richard Wolff Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16299 Alex, to quote you, the industry is in " a state of deep panic" over 2 Private Senators Bills. That is your opening words, with alarmist comments about the sky is falling. That is scaremongering and shows no empathy for the players or families or small communities shattered by the growth of this plague like product. One of Crikeys writers, Andrew Bartlett just wrote this week on Crikey how hard it would be for Private Senators Bills to actually become law ! It will take the full support of the Rudd Government to get anywhere at all ! Crikey has surprisingly not stepped up on the good work done by Senator Xenator Xenophon and Fielding until the chance to slap them in the face in this article. The community in Australia, and NZ and other countries is entitled to be protected from the harm pokies cause by the Government elected to protect them. But with windfall gains to revenue, the separation of duties to raise needed revenue, and protect the community is held by the same people. That is why the Federal Government must now enter the arena. Also, reflecting the community values, a new website www.makepokiessafe.com has been established to centralise the concerns of the community and provide a central source of information for the community. Just this week, a 700 million class-action has commenced in Quebec against Loto Quebec for knowingly encouraging the use of highly addictive video lottery terminal (VLT) technology. And NZ commences mandatory screen messages from 1 July 2009 on all pokies. <br />Usually denial followed by regret is something pokies players go through when they hit rock bottom. But this week, former Queensland Premier Wayne Goss said he regretted introducing the pokies scourge. <br />Let us hope the Senate Inquiry here uses the opportunity to shackle a genie that should never have been let out of the bottle and that denial leads more quickly to regret and action. Alex, to quote you, the industry is in ” a state of deep panic” over 2 Private Senators Bills. That is your opening words, with alarmist comments about the sky is falling. That is scaremongering and shows no empathy for the players or families or small communities shattered by the growth of this plague like product. One of Crikeys writers, Andrew Bartlett just wrote this week on Crikey how hard it would be for Private Senators Bills to actually become law ! It will take the full support of the Rudd Government to get anywhere at all ! Crikey has surprisingly not stepped up on the good work done by Senator Xenator Xenophon and Fielding until the chance to slap them in the face in this article. The community in Australia, and NZ and other countries is entitled to be protected from the harm pokies cause by the Government elected to protect them. But with windfall gains to revenue, the separation of duties to raise needed revenue, and protect the community is held by the same people. That is why the Federal Government must now enter the arena. Also, reflecting the community values, a new website http://www.makepokiessafe.com has been established to centralise the concerns of the community and provide a central source of information for the community. Just this week, a 700 million class-action has commenced in Quebec against Loto Quebec for knowingly encouraging the use of highly addictive video lottery terminal (VLT) technology. And NZ commences mandatory screen messages from 1 July 2009 on all pokies.
Usually denial followed by regret is something pokies players go through when they hit rock bottom. But this week, former Queensland Premier Wayne Goss said he regretted introducing the pokies scourge.
Let us hope the Senate Inquiry here uses the opportunity to shackle a genie that should never have been let out of the bottle and that denial leads more quickly to regret and action.

]]> By: John D http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16300 John D Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16300 Why is Fieldings approach "cheap populism"? To label it as such is a small minded retort. Rather than throw stones at a not unreasonable solution Alex, what do you have to offer? Your final paragraphs are the most telling... $7 B wasted on pokies per annum - more often than not by the very people that least afford to lose the money. It breaks up families, causes suicides, and in terms of net harm, is a far greater destroyer than heroin. Perhaps if the pubs cannot survive without these infernal family wrecking machines, they could just start selling smack instead?<br /><br />Would that be OK with you? Why is Fieldings approach “cheap populism”? To label it as such is a small minded retort. Rather than throw stones at a not unreasonable solution Alex, what do you have to offer? Your final paragraphs are the most telling… $7 B wasted on pokies per annum - more often than not by the very people that least afford to lose the money. It breaks up families, causes suicides, and in terms of net harm, is a far greater destroyer than heroin. Perhaps if the pubs cannot survive without these infernal family wrecking machines, they could just start selling smack instead?

Would that be OK with you?

]]> By: Chris http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16301 Chris Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16301 Strangely the pubs are alive and kicking in WA ... with no pokies in sight.<br /><br />Perhaps the people who really need to kick their addiction to gambling is the State Governments?<br /><br />Xenophon seems to have a much better idea about where to go on Pokies than Fielding - which isn't the least bit surprising... Strangely the pubs are alive and kicking in WA … with no pokies in sight.

Perhaps the people who really need to kick their addiction to gambling is the State Governments?

Xenophon seems to have a much better idea about where to go on Pokies than Fielding - which isn’t the least bit surprising…

]]> By: Libby Mitchell http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16302 Libby Mitchell Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16302 Whew! <br /><br />Richard Wolff..."Let us hope the Senate Inquiry here uses the opportunity to shackle a genie that should never have been let out of the bottle and that denial leads more quickly to regret and action". <br /><br />What a great way of putting it! <br /><br />So now let's act upon it please Crikey...before you lose your reputation for honesty and acute appraisal of political / social / economic issues...totally?<br /> Whew!

Richard Wolff…”Let us hope the Senate Inquiry here uses the opportunity to shackle a genie that should never have been let out of the bottle and that denial leads more quickly to regret and action”.

What a great way of putting it!

So now let’s act upon it please Crikey…before you lose your reputation for honesty and acute appraisal of political / social / economic issues…totally?

]]> By: Donna http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/19/blow-up-the-pokies-but-not-at-the-expense-of-the-pub/#comment-16303 Donna Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16303 Of course Chris, while WA have no pokies in pubs to create wealth, they sure have mines and mines and more mines and soon will have more and more mines digging for uranium so I feel sure we can presume their is no burning ambition in the bosom of the Lib/Nats Coalition Government ( the coalition mr Grylls insisted would never happen) to install pokies in pubs and clubs. The royalties roll in, we wait with interest to see the fruits of Grylls endeavours in the regions. Esperance folk on the Sth coast will watch and wait with interest to see what success their local member the new Minister for Mental Health will have in upgrading the Esperance Hospital. The place is in a digraceful state of repair despite the best efforts of staff, volunteers and friends. Of course Chris, while WA have no pokies in pubs to create wealth, they sure have mines and mines and more mines and soon will have more and more mines digging for uranium so I feel sure we can presume their is no burning ambition in the bosom of the Lib/Nats Coalition Government ( the coalition mr Grylls insisted would never happen) to install pokies in pubs and clubs. The royalties roll in, we wait with interest to see the fruits of Grylls endeavours in the regions. Esperance folk on the Sth coast will watch and wait with interest to see what success their local member the new Minister for Mental Health will have in upgrading the Esperance Hospital. The place is in a digraceful state of repair despite the best efforts of staff, volunteers and friends.

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