Comments on: Beecher v Devine: The threat to public trust journalism http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/ now with extra source Sun, 22 Nov 2009 04:36:07 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5541 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5541 Suck on your pacifier Kev boy.......you obviously need it! Suck on your pacifier Kev boy…….you obviously need it!

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5542 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5542 According to the simplistic thinking of Phil Kyson, the left equals TRUTH whilst the right equates with EVIL.<br /><br />Perhaps Phil you really "can't handle the truth'?<br /><br />Australian journalism is woeful presently never mind in some imaginary 'future' when "the bulk of Australian quality journalism (has) disappeared" and it certainly is going to be no better with furthering the interdependence of government and the media. According to the simplistic thinking of Phil Kyson, the left equals TRUTH whilst the right equates with EVIL.

Perhaps Phil you really “can’t handle the truth’?

Australian journalism is woeful presently never mind in some imaginary ‘future’ when “the bulk of Australian quality journalism (has) disappeared” and it certainly is going to be no better with furthering the interdependence of government and the media.

]]> By: Kevin Charles Herbert http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5543 Kevin Charles Herbert Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5543 Little JimmyK: you increasingly inane, ill constructed rants based almost exclusively on left v right, east v west, up v down, Israel v The World, etc etc are both predicable and terminally boring. <br /><br />Please stop wasting space on Crikey until you have something of substance to say i.e some new factual information on a topic OR even a new idea regarding the accepted facts. <br /><br />I welcome meaningful discourse with opposing Crikey debaters, but not with droobs like YOU who attempt to reduce every discussion into Left v Right, east v west, dark v light etc etc. <br /><br />Finally, your recent childish attempt to reduce Downer's farcical response to thevery serious matter of the torture of Aussie citizens, the non-observance of the rule of law etc etc, to a Pete & Dud comedy skit, illustrates your total lack of judgement & context.<br /><br />In short, you're an offensive clown who clogs up Crikey comment pages with repetitive, predictable dross. Little JimmyK: you increasingly inane, ill constructed rants based almost exclusively on left v right, east v west, up v down, Israel v The World, etc etc are both predicable and terminally boring.

Please stop wasting space on Crikey until you have something of substance to say i.e some new factual information on a topic OR even a new idea regarding the accepted facts.

I welcome meaningful discourse with opposing Crikey debaters, but not with droobs like YOU who attempt to reduce every discussion into Left v Right, east v west, dark v light etc etc.

Finally, your recent childish attempt to reduce Downer’s farcical response to thevery serious matter of the torture of Aussie citizens, the non-observance of the rule of law etc etc, to a Pete & Dud comedy skit, illustrates your total lack of judgement & context.

In short, you’re an offensive clown who clogs up Crikey comment pages with repetitive, predictable dross.

]]> By: Tom McLoughlin http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5544 Tom McLoughlin Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5544 Frank couldn't care less about the public interest, his time is so over. Others actually have to worry about the media future when others have gone. It's a race to see who potters off first HMV or FD. People who actually care about democracy not just winning have a challenge to face. <br /><br />Don't forget too that influence News Ltd so treasure also means corporate state welfare (e.g. WYD sponsorship deal subsidised one way or the other by NSW taxpayers).<br /><br />Beecher's view about govt buying into investigative press journalism is not so different, probably more transparent. Frank couldn’t care less about the public interest, his time is so over. Others actually have to worry about the media future when others have gone. It’s a race to see who potters off first HMV or FD. People who actually care about democracy not just winning have a challenge to face.

Don’t forget too that influence News Ltd so treasure also means corporate state welfare (e.g. WYD sponsorship deal subsidised one way or the other by NSW taxpayers).

Beecher’s view about govt buying into investigative press journalism is not so different, probably more transparent.

]]> By: Dr Harvey M Tarvydas http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5545 Dr Harvey M Tarvydas Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5545 Here Here. Here Here.

]]> By: Phil Kyson http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5546 Phil Kyson Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5546 It's a fact, the thing that scares the right side of politics the most is the truth. The closer a journo gets to the truth of any political story the more they're branded a lefty or liberal in the US sense. It matters not if its fact or fiction. All one needs to do is look at the coverage of current wars and the embedding of gutless propaganda journo’s of the right, the free ride the Howard Government got over its human rights atrocities, along with other scandle. It’s clear for all if you wish to see. I believe the problem here is guts. If you work for a private owner, look like upsetting their poly mates you’re gone, if you’re lucky. If you work for a public broadcaster and the masters are conservatives you just get moved or left buried by the journo’s in the private sector bunkers. O what a great day it would be to see true journalism and not just opinion or just sucking up, an art form in which Bolt has a PHD.<br />“Which leaves the Leftist, agenda-driven, conservative-hating, incendiary hotbed of subversives, the ABC” Indeed!<br /><br /> It’s a fact, the thing that scares the right side of politics the most is the truth. The closer a journo gets to the truth of any political story the more they’re branded a lefty or liberal in the US sense. It matters not if its fact or fiction. All one needs to do is look at the coverage of current wars and the embedding of gutless propaganda journo’s of the right, the free ride the Howard Government got over its human rights atrocities, along with other scandle. It’s clear for all if you wish to see. I believe the problem here is guts. If you work for a private owner, look like upsetting their poly mates you’re gone, if you’re lucky. If you work for a public broadcaster and the masters are conservatives you just get moved or left buried by the journo’s in the private sector bunkers. O what a great day it would be to see true journalism and not just opinion or just sucking up, an art form in which Bolt has a PHD.
“Which leaves the Leftist, agenda-driven, conservative-hating, incendiary hotbed of subversives, the ABC” Indeed!

]]> By: Sun King http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5547 Sun King Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5547 Eric, a good analysis. I happen to be in New York. Today I picked up a free copy of the New York Sun in a hotel lobby. Page one announced the NY Sun is about to slam the bags in a few days unless someone comes up with fat cash to save it. I'll cut out this sorry plea and post the clipping to The Age as it will soon have scant few journos to write its own plea if worst comes to worst. I hope it never comes to this for what will Melbournians use to put under our lino if The Age were to go the way of the NY Sun? Let us pray. Eric, a good analysis. I happen to be in New York. Today I picked up a free copy of the New York Sun in a hotel lobby. Page one announced the NY Sun is about to slam the bags in a few days unless someone comes up with fat cash to save it. I’ll cut out this sorry plea and post the clipping to The Age as it will soon have scant few journos to write its own plea if worst comes to worst. I hope it never comes to this for what will Melbournians use to put under our lino if The Age were to go the way of the NY Sun? Let us pray.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5548 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5548 Pippy, I'm relieved that you acknowledge that your thinking is simplistic but after that I was unable to follow your line of reasoning. <br /><br />Men have been warring since time immemorial but I have never heard a philosophical treatise describing it as the political right's fault but perhaps you are a member of a secret society such as the Illuminati and possess secret knowledge?<br /><br />The last world war was initiated by the leader of the National Socialist German Workers' Party. His name was Adolph Hitler. Rather than become Chancellor of Germany he really ought to have been carted away by men in white coats. So does Kev boy...... Pippy, I’m relieved that you acknowledge that your thinking is simplistic but after that I was unable to follow your line of reasoning.

Men have been warring since time immemorial but I have never heard a philosophical treatise describing it as the political right’s fault but perhaps you are a member of a secret society such as the Illuminati and possess secret knowledge?

The last world war was initiated by the leader of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. His name was Adolph Hitler. Rather than become Chancellor of Germany he really ought to have been carted away by men in white coats. So does Kev boy……

]]> By: Marg http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5549 Marg Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5549 Doesn't Frank Devine (or John Hartigan) for that matter read The Australian these days? It's pages are peppered if not full of reports and opinion pieces that promote its many agendas and/or kick the heads in of people who question or oppose those agendas. Multiculturalism. Education. Indigenous affairs are just a few. Doesn’t Frank Devine (or John Hartigan) for that matter read The Australian these days? It’s pages are peppered if not full of reports and opinion pieces that promote its many agendas and/or kick the heads in of people who question or oppose those agendas. Multiculturalism. Education. Indigenous affairs are just a few.

]]> By: Lucy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5550 Lucy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5550 Yes, Frank Devine's apparent belief that agendas are only ever left-wing in nature is interesting to say the least. Forgot to say that the first time around. Yes, Frank Devine’s apparent belief that agendas are only ever left-wing in nature is interesting to say the least. Forgot to say that the first time around.

]]> By: Pat http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5551 Pat Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5551 Frank Devine? Isn't he dead already? Hang on . . . maybe I'm thinking of Divine. Euqally as relevant in any event. Frank Devine? Isn’t he dead already? Hang on … maybe I’m thinking of Divine. Euqally as relevant in any event.

]]> By: Phil Kyson http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5552 Phil Kyson Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5552 Spot on Jim K, simplistic yes, can’t argue with that. I do get a bit protective of our Aunty. But there is an element of reality about which I write. You unwittingly prove my point about the right’s projections. The movie from which you quote that great line is an excellent example of why the right fails more often than not in wars with their manufactured enemies. Haven’t you ever asked yourself why they become the very thing they war with, ‘besides the fact they need an enemy to exist, sadly? It wouldn’t be so bad if occasionally they reflect on their blunders and grew. Humanity will just have to wait for evolution to do its thing, God willing! Spot on Jim K, simplistic yes, can’t argue with that. I do get a bit protective of our Aunty. But there is an element of reality about which I write. You unwittingly prove my point about the right’s projections. The movie from which you quote that great line is an excellent example of why the right fails more often than not in wars with their manufactured enemies. Haven’t you ever asked yourself why they become the very thing they war with, ‘besides the fact they need an enemy to exist, sadly? It wouldn’t be so bad if occasionally they reflect on their blunders and grew. Humanity will just have to wait for evolution to do its thing, God willing!

]]> By: Stephanie Johnston http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5553 Stephanie Johnston Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5553 Interesting to see crikey.com getting behind government support for newspapers and 'quality journalism' when only a short while back you through Bernard Keane tagged the Australian (book) Publishers' Association's opposition the Productivity Commission's proposed changes to copyright legislation "the myopic forces of cultural protectionism" http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20080710-COAG.html What does BErnard have to say about Eric Beechers' musings on the subject of subsidised "quality journalism" I wonder? Interesting to see crikey.com getting behind government support for newspapers and ‘quality journalism’ when only a short while back you through Bernard Keane tagged the Australian (book) Publishers’ Association’s opposition the Productivity Commission’s proposed changes to copyright legislation “the myopic forces of cultural protectionism” http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20080710-COAG.html What does BErnard have to say about Eric Beechers’ musings on the subject of subsidised “quality journalism” I wonder?

]]> By: Kevin Charles Herbert http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5554 Kevin Charles Herbert Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5554 Little JimmyK: <br /><br />Once again, you're out of your depth......please stop wasting our time with your inane rants Little JimmyK:

Once again, you’re out of your depth……please stop wasting our time with your inane rants

]]> By: Lucy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/12/beecher-v-devine-the-threat-to-public-trust-journalism/#comment-5555 Lucy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5555 Ok Eric. If you are not advocating government support for the printed press, what, precisely, is supposed to be the end result of all this analysis? You want us to “contemplate” a future without quality journalism as if it was a Zen riddle, the sound of one hand clapping?<br /><br />I am all for discussing where quality journalism is headed in Australia, and I agree with you that the view at the moment looks dim. But to get all the way in your analysis to the point of “market failure” and then pretend government intervention isn’t at least one solution to the problems you’ve diagnosed is dishonest. If you think it’s market failure, if you think there’s a genuine externality that requires correction from a government actor, then go ahead and say it, and be prepared to defend it to the likes of Frank Devine. Backing off the logical conclusion to your argument when someone cries socialism is exactly the tactic that leads us into this mess in the first place.<br /> Ok Eric. If you are not advocating government support for the printed press, what, precisely, is supposed to be the end result of all this analysis? You want us to “contemplate” a future without quality journalism as if it was a Zen riddle, the sound of one hand clapping?

I am all for discussing where quality journalism is headed in Australia, and I agree with you that the view at the moment looks dim. But to get all the way in your analysis to the point of “market failure” and then pretend government intervention isn’t at least one solution to the problems you’ve diagnosed is dishonest. If you think it’s market failure, if you think there’s a genuine externality that requires correction from a government actor, then go ahead and say it, and be prepared to defend it to the likes of Frank Devine. Backing off the logical conclusion to your argument when someone cries socialism is exactly the tactic that leads us into this mess in the first place.

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