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Downer laughs at water-boarding and other “pretty fascinating” stuff
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Well, it’s great to see Alexander Downer having a good laugh in his retirement:
It’s all part of a period Downer describes to John Lyons in The Australian today as “that pretty fascinating period of my life”. On a slightly less-than-laughing matter, Downer alleges that the Hawke government had allowed our external spy agency ASIS to be run down to the extent that we weren’t able to detect emerging threats such as the transformation of Jemaah Islamiyah into a full-blown terror outfit. He might have a point. Yet he also acknowledges that ASIS didn’t have any substantial intelligence on Iraq’s WMD prior to the 2003 invasion. His excuse? “Yeah, but I mean we are obviously not main intelligence gatherers in Iraq, if I can be so indiscreet as to say that”. So Mr Downer sent other people’s sons and daughters (but not his own) to fight a war based on the dubious intelligence of others agencies. At least Hawke waited for a clear UN mandate before committing Aussie troops in the 1990 invasion. Downer barely acknowledges what ASIO’s head recently told a Senate Hearing, ie that Australia knew full well of Mamdouh Habib being sent to Egypt for torture. Instead, Downer’s response to suggestions America tortures terror suspects in secret locations was “a spirited laugh”. Indeed, Downer’s FoxNews-type record on foreign affairs would be worth laughing at if it didn’t have such potentially serious consequences for our international reputation and national security. Downer’s successor in the federal Seat of Mayo clearly couldn’t find much to laugh about over the weekend, having received almost as big an electoral fright as Downer himself received in the 1998 Federal Election at the hands of a certain well-known folk singer. |
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20 Comments
Downer the Eternal Dufus who always reminded me of a perennial 4th former trying to impress the senior boys….to no avail of course.
He must surely rank as one of the most morally repugnant politicians in Australia’s history…like Howard, Downer was caught in history’s headlights, an artless, witless buffoon….again like the crass opportunist Howard, he is a disgrace to Australia’s political class.
I’m told that in private, he’s quite good company. That’s cold comfort to the majority of Australians he consistently offended……goodbye to the public Alexander, surely a disgrace to the Downer political legacy.
Finally, trust the ubiquitous neo-con ranter James K to attempt to reduce this discussion of Downer’s sad legacy to a comedy sketch….maybe he could regale us with some comedic constructions on the currrent fiasco that is the Israeli Government …..without the sophistry please JimmyK……
Robert Mugabe would probably join in laughing at human misery.
I refer to my comments on the previous article 12 . “What John Howard could teach the US about gun control”.
The Howard government expressed determination to abolish private ownership of guns. However they were always excessively keen to burn the public gunpowder.
When severe food shortages resulting from the terrible El Nino drought caused the rioting which brought down the Soeharto government in Indonesia the Howard government put Australian troops, including artillery, on short notice to fly out to Jakarta to “rescue” Australian citizens who might have been unable to escape the rioting.
Thank heavens they didn’t get the final call to go. That would have seen Australia making war in a neighbouring country. It could well have triggered a full blown civil war. The idea should never have entered Downer’s head or Howard’s. This was madness, and it came within a few hours of being put into operation.
Later we saw, on world TV news, that the Australian army had a big rubber duckie with which it could carry guns to sea and take over a merchant ship which was on a mission of mercy. The Tampa. Utter madness again.
In Afghanistan the Howard government got to actually burn the public gunpowder. Then we saw the tragedy of Iraq, where we were led to believe in a non existent threat.
One has to suspect that the leaders in the Howard government spent their childhood playing with toy armies fighting toy battles, and that some of them never grew up.
I suggest Kevin Charles Herbert you seek professional clinical help……seriously.
Derek & Clive -
“John Howard”
[ from the album “(Live)” (1976) ]
CLIVE:
I heard that, er, George Stit had, er, moved away from, er, the, er, the Willesden area and, er, gone up, er, round Chadwell Heath.
DEREK:
John Howard?
CLIVE:
Yeah.
DEREK:
Tch. ….. Oh my ….. Er, it’s funny you should say that ‘cause you remember Enid? Who used to, erm, live across the road at number 104?
CLIVE:
Yeah, just next to 105.
DEREK:
Right.
CLIVE:
Mmm.
DEREK:
Er, she’s now working at the United Dairies down Green Lane.
CLIVE:
What, John Howard?
DEREK:
Yeah.
CLIVE:
Tch, Christ. You remember the Nolan twins?
DEREK:
Ohhh, yeah, …..
CLIVE:
Fifi? F-Fifi Nolan, …..
DEREK:
Right.
CLIVE:
….. and …..
DEREK:
And-, and Ronnie.
CLIVE:
And Ronnie Nolan, mmm.
DEREK:
Yeah.
CLIVE:
They’ve taken up darts.
DEREK:
John Howard?
CLIVE:
Yep.
DEREK:
Tch.
Sure Downer’s a total clown, but I think it’s unfair to have a crack at him over the fairly obvious reality that we’re not going to be central in collecting independent intelligence about the situation in Iraq. What Irfan arguably shouldn’t have been so accepting of was Downer’s claims about intelligence services under the Hawke government. While cuts undoubtedly were made, Bill Hayden’s been in today’s media describing his apparently successful efforts to have funding restored, and in any case, our intelligence services during the cold war were total lunatics. Anyone who’d ever turned their head to the left had a file.
It would be appropriate for Downer to be lined up with Howard and Ruddock to face charges of failure in duty of care to Mamdouh Habib, David Hicks, unnamed but numerous refugees and Dr Haneef. The fact that an Australian citizen may have behaved in a silly manner is no excuse for the government to take advantage of the situation in order to win a few votes.
In Downers case, ignorance is no defense.
Oh you are told nathan are you? For the record australia contributed 4 ships on rotation, transport airctraft and anti aircraft missile teams to gulf war 1 . What australia was asked for. nothing to do with inferior equipment. Also money was not what it had been under Fraser but there was money for projects. how would I know? I worked for Defence at the time.
Oh and yes there was a clear mandate. next phantasy?
Zachary, while you’re not wrong about the ubiquitous JamesK, his comment in response to my comment was part of an extremely long-running campaign of mutual antagonism that we’re playing out, so it was expected. And JamesK, it will surprise you to learn that I was a real right-winger in the 80’s. I had the misfortune of attending a right-wing Anglican school and it was only when I started at uni in the early 90’s that I realised the errors of my ways.
Oh look its james k, come out of his hole to offer his usual smart arse personal jibe then without offering anything substantial, slink back from where he came. Its amazing anytime a contributor proffers comment that is not favourable of the Liberal doctrine, immediately they are stuck with a left wing no other point of view, anti establishment tag by the likes of the afore mentioned person.
It would be appropriate for Downer to be lined up with Howard and Ruddock to face charges of failure in duty of care to Mamdouh Habib, David Hicks, unnamed but numerous refugees and Dr Haneef. The fact that an Australian citizen may have behaved in a silly manner is no excuse for the government to take advantage of the situation in order to win a few votes.
In Downers case, ignorance is no defense.
jeez Kerry! I thought you’d have been impressed….
Jeez Dave! I thought that was a fun comment…… very friendly and not at all antagonistic. In addition I have agreed with you about as often as I have disagreed.
Besides any right wing anglican schoolboy of the early 80’s would surely have loved Derek & Clive…..yet no mention in dispatches….
“He must surely rank as one of the most morally repugnant politicians in Australia’s history”
Only if you rant it Kev boy……
Suggest James you double the dose of your medication, obviously what has been prescribed is not working!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now let’s see……L.i.b.e.r.t.s., D.a.v.i.d.
Yes but I see here that you did a little more than just turn your head leftwards Dave…
Peter Sellers recorded a rendition of the old English Music Hall song “Any old iron”, in a voice he created for The Goon Show, Willium “Mate” Cobblers. It reached #17 in the UK music charts that year.
Derek & Clive were Pete & Dud’s even more disgusting alter egos….
Contrary to what the correspondent claims, Australia’s contribution to the 1991 Gulf War consisted almost exclusively of naval ships participating in enforcing UN sanctions. There was not decision taken to commit Australia’s sons and daughters “only after a clear UN mandate”. No formed body of soldiers or RAAF aircraft participated, I am told, on the basis that no money had been spent by the Hawke government upgrading the equipment to a standard acceptable to the US - ie armoured personnel carriers that were essentially the same as those deployed in the Vietnam war and combat aircraft that did not have the latest anti-SAM defences. Admittedly a small number of Australian soldiers participated in the war while on exchange with UK or US forces (MAJGEN David Cantwell is an example of this).
Yes, I was being somewhat tongue-in-cheek JamesK, I had a good chuckle at your comment. I must admit to not being as across Derek and Clive as many Anglican schoolboys of my generation, however. What was with the ‘any old iron’ reference to John James on the US election page? Was that Pete and Dud?
Ah LittleJimmy K: your slip is finally showing, little man……careful……you’ll trip over that dim wit of yours……….there’s no polymath in the family after all, current pretensions notwithstanding……more like polly want a cracker……..poor LittleJimmyK……go on LJK, use those facile constructions to burn us all ……..make us suffer some more, you nasty bwwwwute….