Comments on: Garnaut bows to the insanity of growth fetishism http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/ now with extra source Mon, 23 Nov 2009 19:41:21 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Clive Hamilton http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21753 Clive Hamilton Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21753 Rushing to meet a deadline, and changing the numbers at the last moment to reflect a more realistic outcome, I made a mistake in the figures used in the first edition of this piece. The 550 ppm target would reduce GNP per person growth from 2.5% to 2.4%, not the "1.9%" reported earlier. And this would mean GNP per person would not double until 2042, not "2049" as reported in the earlier edition.<br />Apologies<br />CH Rushing to meet a deadline, and changing the numbers at the last moment to reflect a more realistic outcome, I made a mistake in the figures used in the first edition of this piece. The 550 ppm target would reduce GNP per person growth from 2.5% to 2.4%, not the “1.9%” reported earlier. And this would mean GNP per person would not double until 2042, not “2049” as reported in the earlier edition.
Apologies
CH

]]> By: Lisa http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21754 Lisa Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21754 Excellent article. My response: http://desert-pea.blogspot.com/2008/09/warning-450ppm-co2-target-would-delay.html<br /><br />More people need to be exposed to and contemplate the idea of economic growth being a fetish... This way public consciousness relating to climate change could be raised in a way that makes the truly desirable legislatory path (ie the one that is in the best interests of society as a whole) clear and obvious.<br /> Excellent article. My response: http://desert-pea.blogspot.com/2008/09/warning-450ppm-co2-target-would-delay.html

More people need to be exposed to and contemplate the idea of economic growth being a fetish… This way public consciousness relating to climate change could be raised in a way that makes the truly desirable legislatory path (ie the one that is in the best interests of society as a whole) clear and obvious.

]]> By: Evan http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21755 Evan Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21755 The growth fetishism is real and insidious. But, I don't think it should shape this policy as much as it has done.<br />Polling and the election result strongly suggest that a lot of people want something done about climate change, with a recent poll suggesting most people would be prepared to pay more.<br />On the reverse we have the Business Council of Australia representing a bunch of businesses that don't want to do anything. They will never be happy.<br />So we have 2 camps: Those who want a fix and those that want to do nothing. One half want change the other wants nothing. Rudd, being the central moderate he is has chosen a line between the 2; do something that amounts to nothing. Since the unhappy half will never be happy, stuff them and have a proper go at the scheme. Why not make the half (much more than half I suspect) that want change very happy and stuff the selfish big business? <br /><br />Apparently compromise is a strength in politics, but in this case I think it's a weakness. Big Business have the most money and so have the loudest voice, through advertising and self serving media releases. Yet the silent majority want change and have voted for it. My only hope now is that the public will make enough noise once the scheme is in place to further tighten the emissions as we go. Aiming for the catastrophic target is weakness pure and simple, and cheats the electorate of their vote for change.<br /><br />EB The growth fetishism is real and insidious. But, I don’t think it should shape this policy as much as it has done.
Polling and the election result strongly suggest that a lot of people want something done about climate change, with a recent poll suggesting most people would be prepared to pay more.
On the reverse we have the Business Council of Australia representing a bunch of businesses that don’t want to do anything. They will never be happy.
So we have 2 camps: Those who want a fix and those that want to do nothing. One half want change the other wants nothing. Rudd, being the central moderate he is has chosen a line between the 2; do something that amounts to nothing. Since the unhappy half will never be happy, stuff them and have a proper go at the scheme. Why not make the half (much more than half I suspect) that want change very happy and stuff the selfish big business?

Apparently compromise is a strength in politics, but in this case I think it’s a weakness. Big Business have the most money and so have the loudest voice, through advertising and self serving media releases. Yet the silent majority want change and have voted for it. My only hope now is that the public will make enough noise once the scheme is in place to further tighten the emissions as we go. Aiming for the catastrophic target is weakness pure and simple, and cheats the electorate of their vote for change.

EB

]]> By: Chris http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21756 Chris Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21756 Clive is right. No sane person would question going for the 450ppm - nor even 350ppm in my opinion -when the cost is so trivial compared to the risks involved.<br /><br />However instead of dealing with sane people we are dealing with the fossil fuel industry and the banks, who are financing their coal-burning power generators. <br /><br />They are confirming at every step of this struggle that they continue to control govt policy exactly as they did when facilitated by Howard.<br /><br />Until the people of Australia re-claim democracy, nothing will change. Govt of the people, for the people, by the people no longer exists in Australia. <br /><br />This govt continues to serve the 'Greenhouse Mafia's interests and put their profits ahead the health of the planet as well as our children's children. Clive is right. No sane person would question going for the 450ppm - nor even 350ppm in my opinion -when the cost is so trivial compared to the risks involved.

However instead of dealing with sane people we are dealing with the fossil fuel industry and the banks, who are financing their coal-burning power generators.

They are confirming at every step of this struggle that they continue to control govt policy exactly as they did when facilitated by Howard.

Until the people of Australia re-claim democracy, nothing will change. Govt of the people, for the people, by the people no longer exists in Australia.

This govt continues to serve the ‘Greenhouse Mafia’s interests and put their profits ahead the health of the planet as well as our children’s children.

]]> By: Jack http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21757 Jack Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21757 Growth Fetish preferable to a Policy Gimp Suit<br /><br />Only sensible approach is ease into this slowly. Politics & decision-making always require compromise.<br />If you have committed to introducing a scheme do it slowly - can always be ratcheted up if correct (& rest of world follows) or quitely dismantled if we enter the ice age predicted by the world's eminent scientists in the 1960s (would have thought that is due before this johnny-come-lately global warning thingy).<br /><br />Plus, this approach most likely to drown out the "Wilfully Stoopid" - that's you & me JamesK ...<br /><br />Mistakes are made when rushing for a deadline - as Clive himself points out ! Growth Fetish preferable to a Policy Gimp Suit

Only sensible approach is ease into this slowly. Politics & decision-making always require compromise.
If you have committed to introducing a scheme do it slowly - can always be ratcheted up if correct (& rest of world follows) or quitely dismantled if we enter the ice age predicted by the world’s eminent scientists in the 1960s (would have thought that is due before this johnny-come-lately global warning thingy).

Plus, this approach most likely to drown out the “Wilfully Stoopid” - that’s you & me JamesK …

Mistakes are made when rushing for a deadline - as Clive himself points out !

]]> By: MichaelT http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21758 MichaelT Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21758 Depends how much credibility you put in projected figures.<br /><br />Actual figures for global warming are not dramatic. We are currently only one half of a degree above average for the global surface temperature, even with the industrialisation of Asia in full swing for several decades, and the effects on the Beijing air we have seen last month. <br /><br />Does half a degree actual justify shutting down our coal industry, for example? <br /><br />I wouldn't want to be a PM going to the next election justifying that sort of action on the basis of someone's modelling. Depends how much credibility you put in projected figures.

Actual figures for global warming are not dramatic. We are currently only one half of a degree above average for the global surface temperature, even with the industrialisation of Asia in full swing for several decades, and the effects on the Beijing air we have seen last month.

Does half a degree actual justify shutting down our coal industry, for example?

I wouldn’t want to be a PM going to the next election justifying that sort of action on the basis of someone’s modelling.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21759 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21759 Cancer typically outstrips its blood supply and necrosis ensues......... Cancer typically outstrips its blood supply and necrosis ensues………

]]> By: robert http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21760 robert Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21760 growth for growths sake is the ideology of cancer growth for growths sake is the ideology of cancer

]]> By: Tom McLoughlin http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21761 Tom McLoughlin Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21761 Good article - I would expect politics to continue to the left and the green as the ecological reality of this system failure and the next big storm rams the point home. Good article - I would expect politics to continue to the left and the green as the ecological reality of this system failure and the next big storm rams the point home.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21762 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21762 In fairness to those arguments that Garnaut has had to deal with, Rudd, Wong and Swan have relentlessly bored our proverbial socks off with the moronoically repeated mantra that the cost of inaction is far greater than the cost of action:<br /><br />"On the question of emissions trading, we on this side of the House know a simple fact and it is this: the economic cost of inaction on climate change is far greater than the economic cost of action on climate change'' (Rudd, June 23)<br /><br />It is rather egregious and dishonest to now complain because Rudd & Co. have disingenuously supplied ammunition to the opposition Clive Hamilton and as a result Garnaut has had to become practical.<br /><br /> In fairness to those arguments that Garnaut has had to deal with, Rudd, Wong and Swan have relentlessly bored our proverbial socks off with the moronoically repeated mantra that the cost of inaction is far greater than the cost of action:

“On the question of emissions trading, we on this side of the House know a simple fact and it is this: the economic cost of inaction on climate change is far greater than the economic cost of action on climate change” (Rudd, June 23)

It is rather egregious and dishonest to now complain because Rudd & Co. have disingenuously supplied ammunition to the opposition Clive Hamilton and as a result Garnaut has had to become practical.

]]> By: Jane http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/09/08/garnaut-bows-to-the-insanity-of-growth-fetishism/#comment-21763 Jane Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21763 Contrary to the moanings and hair pullings of the Business Council of Australia, the Australian Industry Group and their sycophants, Australia is in no danger of going out on a limb about dealing with climate change. Australia is being well and truly left behind. Germany has more solar panels generating power than any other country. California is tooling up to meet ever-increasingly stringent legislation to abate carbon. China may buy coal and steel, but also invests in every kind of energy.<br />Since the 1990s, Australian ingenuity has been being forced offshore because Australian banks would not invest in energy and environment smart technology. Anyone who used to watch Landline back then will remember Australian solar technology going to Germany, water purification to France, among many examples. Our business and economic leaders are too busy wringing the last fat turds of profit out of their 19th century technologies to care about what impact their greed will have on others of all species. When the time comes, they can huddle in their gated communities with their armed security guards and talk to each other by Internet about the good old days. They were happy enough to slash manufacturing jobs by going off shore, singing the level-playing-field mantra. Now they just want to hang on to their cheap coal and iron as long as possible, bleating about how they shouldn't have to pay.<br />There are 2 problems with the growth religion. One: the "owners" of the resources have not paid a fair price, and do not clean up after themselves. The terra isn't nullius, it's full of rich stuff. Which has been appropriated by greedy people with power and influence. Two: Continual growth is cancerous. Cancer kills. It gobbles up resources and leaves behind a wasteland. I, for one, will miss the pygmy possums and polar bears a whole lot more than I will miss the top 100 CEOs. Contrary to the moanings and hair pullings of the Business Council of Australia, the Australian Industry Group and their sycophants, Australia is in no danger of going out on a limb about dealing with climate change. Australia is being well and truly left behind. Germany has more solar panels generating power than any other country. California is tooling up to meet ever-increasingly stringent legislation to abate carbon. China may buy coal and steel, but also invests in every kind of energy.
Since the 1990s, Australian ingenuity has been being forced offshore because Australian banks would not invest in energy and environment smart technology. Anyone who used to watch Landline back then will remember Australian solar technology going to Germany, water purification to France, among many examples. Our business and economic leaders are too busy wringing the last fat turds of profit out of their 19th century technologies to care about what impact their greed will have on others of all species. When the time comes, they can huddle in their gated communities with their armed security guards and talk to each other by Internet about the good old days. They were happy enough to slash manufacturing jobs by going off shore, singing the level-playing-field mantra. Now they just want to hang on to their cheap coal and iron as long as possible, bleating about how they shouldn’t have to pay.
There are 2 problems with the growth religion. One: the “owners” of the resources have not paid a fair price, and do not clean up after themselves. The terra isn’t nullius, it’s full of rich stuff. Which has been appropriated by greedy people with power and influence. Two: Continual growth is cancerous. Cancer kills. It gobbles up resources and leaves behind a wasteland. I, for one, will miss the pygmy possums and polar bears a whole lot more than I will miss the top 100 CEOs.

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