Comments on: Nelson and Costello sitting in a tree http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/ now with extra source Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:29:53 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Venise Alstergren http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4644 Venise Alstergren Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4644 James Goldbaum: In my experience the more homophobic a man, the less sure he is of his own sexuality.<br /><br />Surely, as a tax payer-this is an assumption, of course- you should be appalled at all the softening up of the electorate in order to slug us for an even greater amount of athletes to go to London in 2012. This is the real question here. What does it matter if Brendan Nelson is a little gay himself? He wont be around much longer. James Goldbaum: In my experience the more homophobic a man, the less sure he is of his own sexuality.

Surely, as a tax payer-this is an assumption, of course- you should be appalled at all the softening up of the electorate in order to slug us for an even greater amount of athletes to go to London in 2012. This is the real question here. What does it matter if Brendan Nelson is a little gay himself? He wont be around much longer.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4645 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4645 John Goldbaum, your reading of a magazine article where either Brendan or Phillip (from your quote I know not which) says "he never talked about it" in relation to yet another quote presumably from said 'magazine article' about Phillip's "presumed homosexuality" the source of which is also not clear, does not give you the right to grandstand in a public forum disparaging Phillip's siblings and his parents when in fact it is plain that:<br /><br />1. You do not have the right<br /><br />2. You do not actually know<br /><br />3. And you clearly do not care that your soapboxing is hurtful as well as ignorant <br /><br />You owe the Nelson family a retraction and an apology. <br /><br />You are an insensitive oaf hellbent on grandstanding your 'precious' opinion at any cost.<br /><br /> John Goldbaum, your reading of a magazine article where either Brendan or Phillip (from your quote I know not which) says “he never talked about it” in relation to yet another quote presumably from said ‘magazine article’ about Phillip’s “presumed homosexuality” the source of which is also not clear, does not give you the right to grandstand in a public forum disparaging Phillip’s siblings and his parents when in fact it is plain that:

1. You do not have the right

2. You do not actually know

3. And you clearly do not care that your soapboxing is hurtful as well as ignorant

You owe the Nelson family a retraction and an apology.

You are an insensitive oaf hellbent on grandstanding your ‘precious’ opinion at any cost.

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4646 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4646 Cathy, everyone was discussing the relationship of Eamon Sullivan and Stephanie Rice. Some male athletes talked about their wives. If you don't create a space for Matthew Mitcham and others to talk about their same-sex partners, you are silencing them in the assumption that everyone is straight. As for Brendan and his parents, his brother's formative years were full of messages that being gay is bad. No wonder he couldn't come out. Cathy, everyone was discussing the relationship of Eamon Sullivan and Stephanie Rice. Some male athletes talked about their wives. If you don’t create a space for Matthew Mitcham and others to talk about their same-sex partners, you are silencing them in the assumption that everyone is straight. As for Brendan and his parents, his brother’s formative years were full of messages that being gay is bad. No wonder he couldn’t come out.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4647 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4647 "Brendan still doesn't understand that he, his parents and the rest of the family failed to create an environment where the brother felt safe to come out" says John Goldbaum. <br /><br />How the f-ck does he know? “Brendan still doesn’t understand that he, his parents and the rest of the family failed to create an environment where the brother felt safe to come out” says John Goldbaum.

How the f-ck does he know?

]]> By: Cathy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4648 Cathy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4648 Oh for Gay's sake John...no one expects or even believes same-sex or both-sex players should feel guilty. For what? If people choose one or multiple partners it's a personal decision as to making it public. As Matthew demonstrated he's comfortable with himself and clearly says what he thinks. Where's the issue? And if you think Kevin Rudd or Chris Evans went into a huddle to agree on prefacing their salutes to a great Olympian with 'our gay Matt who outed himself' as they winked at the rest with an 'onya to our straights' your a hoax or just plain nuts. It's only you who appear in the closet on this issue. Oh for Gay’s sake John…no one expects or even believes same-sex or both-sex players should feel guilty. For what? If people choose one or multiple partners it’s a personal decision as to making it public. As Matthew demonstrated he’s comfortable with himself and clearly says what he thinks. Where’s the issue? And if you think Kevin Rudd or Chris Evans went into a huddle to agree on prefacing their salutes to a great Olympian with ‘our gay Matt who outed himself’ as they winked at the rest with an ‘onya to our straights’ your a hoax or just plain nuts. It’s only you who appear in the closet on this issue.

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4649 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4649 JamesK, if you come out of hiding and tell me your surname, I could send you a bill for this therapy session. Do you work for Brendan Nelson?<br />Cathy, you missed the point. There should be no reason to feel ashamed about being gay. It is an integral part of a gay person's life. Why should they hide it from the public? Straight people don't. As for who would think to single out our first openly gay Olympian for special praise, well Cathy, that honour went to Kevin Rudd and Chris Evans. JamesK, if you come out of hiding and tell me your surname, I could send you a bill for this therapy session. Do you work for Brendan Nelson?
Cathy, you missed the point. There should be no reason to feel ashamed about being gay. It is an integral part of a gay person’s life. Why should they hide it from the public? Straight people don’t. As for who would think to single out our first openly gay Olympian for special praise, well Cathy, that honour went to Kevin Rudd and Chris Evans.

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4650 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4650 JamesK, in one of the weekend magazines earlier in the year, there was a puff piece on Brendan and he was quoted saying in relation to his brother's "presumed homosexuality" that "he never talked about it". If a child grows up fearing he will burn in hell if he is gay, of course he will remain in the closet. If a gay child sees the successful, happy and gay Matthew Mitcham, that child can aspire to succeed and live a happy life. JamesK, in one of the weekend magazines earlier in the year, there was a puff piece on Brendan and he was quoted saying in relation to his brother’s “presumed homosexuality” that “he never talked about it”. If a child grows up fearing he will burn in hell if he is gay, of course he will remain in the closet. If a gay child sees the successful, happy and gay Matthew Mitcham, that child can aspire to succeed and live a happy life.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4651 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4651 No John Goldbaum, I asked how the f-ck does John Goldbaum KNOW that "Brendan still doesn't understand that he, his parents and the rest of the family failed to create an environment where the brother felt safe to come out"? No John Goldbaum, I asked how the f-ck does John Goldbaum KNOW that “Brendan still doesn’t understand that he, his parents and the rest of the family failed to create an environment where the brother felt safe to come out”?

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4652 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4652 Tom, I need to reply to you. Brendan's brother was much-loved but he lived and died in the closet. Brendan still doesn't understand that he, his parents and the rest of the family failed to create an environment where the brother felt safe to come out. Their church and their schools were probably part of the problem too. As for Brendan stepping up to the plate on gay rights, he delivered three months of obstruction and delay in same-sex superannuation legislation in the senate. He has implied that same-sex couples are not as good as opposite-sex couples whereas a gay rights believer would just say they were different but not better or worse. Tom, I need to reply to you. Brendan’s brother was much-loved but he lived and died in the closet. Brendan still doesn’t understand that he, his parents and the rest of the family failed to create an environment where the brother felt safe to come out. Their church and their schools were probably part of the problem too. As for Brendan stepping up to the plate on gay rights, he delivered three months of obstruction and delay in same-sex superannuation legislation in the senate. He has implied that same-sex couples are not as good as opposite-sex couples whereas a gay rights believer would just say they were different but not better or worse.

]]> By: Cathy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4653 Cathy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4653 Oh for Gay's sake John...no one expects or even believes same-sex or both-sex players should feel guilty. For what? If people choose one or multiple partners it's a personal decision as to making it public. As Matthew demonstrated he's comfortable with himself and clearly says what he thinks. Where's the issue? And if you think Kevin Rudd or Chris Evans went into a huddle to agree on prefacing their salutes to a great Olympian with 'our gay Matt who outed himself' as they winked at the rest with an 'onya to our straights' your a hoax or just plain nuts. It's only you who appear in the closet on this issue. Oh for Gay’s sake John…no one expects or even believes same-sex or both-sex players should feel guilty. For what? If people choose one or multiple partners it’s a personal decision as to making it public. As Matthew demonstrated he’s comfortable with himself and clearly says what he thinks. Where’s the issue? And if you think Kevin Rudd or Chris Evans went into a huddle to agree on prefacing their salutes to a great Olympian with ‘our gay Matt who outed himself’ as they winked at the rest with an ‘onya to our straights’ your a hoax or just plain nuts. It’s only you who appear in the closet on this issue.

]]> By: Cathy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4654 Cathy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4654 What a shame a funny edifying article has gone so off-track with John Goldbaum's bizarre, paranoid assertion that Bernard could have given a more insightful expose on Parliament yesterday. Who in the entire House would even think to selectively mention athletes according to their gay, same sex, ageist or anything other than sporting achievement merits? With a diplomatic corp well-represented by the Matthew Mitcham's where's the great need for 'a space creation' so gays can comfortably mention same-sex partners. Maybe what DOES irk is the fan clubs, hordes and in-your-face cheer leaders like John Goldbaum and Alan Jones who can't let an opportunity pass without shouting 'GAY' and waving banners, blowing whistles and releasing balloons - the old gay brigade who use the Matthew Mitchams of this world as some form of personal salvation. PS Thanks Bernard for again more hilarity.... What a shame a funny edifying article has gone so off-track with John Goldbaum’s bizarre, paranoid assertion that Bernard could have given a more insightful expose on Parliament yesterday. Who in the entire House would even think to selectively mention athletes according to their gay, same sex, ageist or anything other than sporting achievement merits? With a diplomatic corp well-represented by the Matthew Mitcham’s where’s the great need for ‘a space creation’ so gays can comfortably mention same-sex partners. Maybe what DOES irk is the fan clubs, hordes and in-your-face cheer leaders like John Goldbaum and Alan Jones who can’t let an opportunity pass without shouting ‘GAY’ and waving banners, blowing whistles and releasing balloons - the old gay brigade who use the Matthew Mitchams of this world as some form of personal salvation. PS Thanks Bernard for again more hilarity….

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4655 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4655 JamesK, the weekend magazine was, from memory, the supplement in the Weekend Australian. The quotes were both from Brendan Nelson. It is clear that as recently as the interview Brendan gave the magazine earlier this year that Brendan believed it was the sole responsibility of his gay brother to be open about his homosexuality even though the brother was raised in a Catholic family and attended a Catholic school, and probably a Catholic church, which taught him that being gay was bad. The point is that parents and siblings won't know about their gay relative's homosexuality until the relative is a teenager at the least, but that child has heard and internalised all the hateful and harmful messages right up until that point. If you want all of your children to be happy and successful, you have a responsibility to the 5% or so who happen to be gay, not to damage them in the period before either they or you know they are gay. That is why it is important to have role models such as Matthew Mitcham. It is good for the kids and for their parents. I will not retract and I will not apologise. Brendan is a contender for PM and he has had a lot to say recently about homosexuality and same-sex couples. Some of his utterings have been harmful. I have the right to point out why. Brendan initiated the public discussion of his brother's death from AIDS and his presumed homosexuality. I didn't out anyone. Brendan's parents and siblings are indeed private citizens but Brendan is the one who has dragged them into this story by initiating the story when he responded in the puff piece interview. JamesK, the weekend magazine was, from memory, the supplement in the Weekend Australian. The quotes were both from Brendan Nelson. It is clear that as recently as the interview Brendan gave the magazine earlier this year that Brendan believed it was the sole responsibility of his gay brother to be open about his homosexuality even though the brother was raised in a Catholic family and attended a Catholic school, and probably a Catholic church, which taught him that being gay was bad. The point is that parents and siblings won’t know about their gay relative’s homosexuality until the relative is a teenager at the least, but that child has heard and internalised all the hateful and harmful messages right up until that point. If you want all of your children to be happy and successful, you have a responsibility to the 5% or so who happen to be gay, not to damage them in the period before either they or you know they are gay. That is why it is important to have role models such as Matthew Mitcham. It is good for the kids and for their parents. I will not retract and I will not apologise. Brendan is a contender for PM and he has had a lot to say recently about homosexuality and same-sex couples. Some of his utterings have been harmful. I have the right to point out why. Brendan initiated the public discussion of his brother’s death from AIDS and his presumed homosexuality. I didn’t out anyone. Brendan’s parents and siblings are indeed private citizens but Brendan is the one who has dragged them into this story by initiating the story when he responded in the puff piece interview.

]]> By: Cathy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4656 Cathy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4656 John Goldbaum...it's wonderful for you to feel empathy with a marginal group in society. But had you or Alan Jones not made such a song and dance about the exceptional talents of Matthew Mitcham and his sexual bent none of would likely have twigged or cared if he was a gelding. So f**king what? Why on earth do you people keep peddling this innane view that sexual proclivities are mandatory recognition elements in an individual's distress, success or otherwise. Whether we're bi-polar, bi-sexual or bi-partisan we all deal with difficult and challenging issues. My Mum is suffering dementia and I don't use it as a fanfare for my achievements. Grow up! John Goldbaum…it’s wonderful for you to feel empathy with a marginal group in society. But had you or Alan Jones not made such a song and dance about the exceptional talents of Matthew Mitcham and his sexual bent none of would likely have twigged or cared if he was a gelding. So f**king what? Why on earth do you people keep peddling this innane view that sexual proclivities are mandatory recognition elements in an individual’s distress, success or otherwise. Whether we’re bi-polar, bi-sexual or bi-partisan we all deal with difficult and challenging issues. My Mum is suffering dementia and I don’t use it as a fanfare for my achievements. Grow up!

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4657 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4657 John Goldbaum, Matthew Mitcham is not the issue and you know it. <br /><br />You simply have no right and certainly no justification to assert that Brendan, "his parents and the rest of the family failed to create an environment where the brother felt safe to come out".<br /><br />My prior comment stands. You should retract and apologise but unsurprsingly you have failed.<br /><br />Arrogant and ignorant....wonderful combination John Goldbaum, Matthew Mitcham is not the issue and you know it.

You simply have no right and certainly no justification to assert that Brendan, “his parents and the rest of the family failed to create an environment where the brother felt safe to come out”.

My prior comment stands. You should retract and apologise but unsurprsingly you have failed.

Arrogant and ignorant….wonderful combination

]]> By: Tom McLoughlin http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4658 Tom McLoughlin Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4658 I wouldn't go there John. Nelson's brother RIP etc. Refer for instance "Nelson steps up to the plate on gay rights", Monday, 3 December 2007 right here on crikey.com.au<br /><br />So was Ruddy confusing 'with bells on' and 'in spades'. Are mangled metaphors like hairy palms and madness, the first sign of jellyback? I wouldn’t go there John. Nelson’s brother RIP etc. Refer for instance “Nelson steps up to the plate on gay rights”, Monday, 3 December 2007 right here on crikey.com.au

So was Ruddy confusing ‘with bells on’ and ‘in spades’. Are mangled metaphors like hairy palms and madness, the first sign of jellyback?

]]> By: Venise Alstergren http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4659 Venise Alstergren Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4659 Did anyone see the shots of Peter Costello (in the ABC's Turnbull profile) looking so far up himself he was inside out? Panther pi*s Pete's posturing profile, pouting, preening and perfectly revolting. Did anyone see the shots of Peter Costello (in the ABC’s Turnbull profile) looking so far up himself he was inside out? Panther pi*s Pete’s posturing profile, pouting, preening and perfectly revolting.

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4660 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4660 Cathy, I really don't see how you can assert that I am in the closet on this or any other issue. I have identified myself in public with my full name and have said exactly what I believe. You have only given us a first name. Cathy, I really don’t see how you can assert that I am in the closet on this or any other issue. I have identified myself in public with my full name and have said exactly what I believe. You have only given us a first name.

]]> By: Helen Evans http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4661 Helen Evans Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4661 CLUNK! John Goldbaum just walked right into something, hopefully permanently. I think Cathy's reference to you 'being in the closet' possibly translates as "ill-informed, in the dark"..you know John, play on words for appearing confounded and obscure on your topic of debate. You've also well evidenced your apparent bent for assuming situations by inferring Cathy's credibility relies on her having a surname. Maybe she's an advocate for nicknames after education and family life gave her an indentity crisis. This is too weird for any more words! CLUNK! John Goldbaum just walked right into something, hopefully permanently. I think Cathy’s reference to you ‘being in the closet’ possibly translates as “ill-informed, in the dark”..you know John, play on words for appearing confounded and obscure on your topic of debate. You’ve also well evidenced your apparent bent for assuming situations by inferring Cathy’s credibility relies on her having a surname. Maybe she’s an advocate for nicknames after education and family life gave her an indentity crisis. This is too weird for any more words!

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4662 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4662 One of the interesting comparisons that Bernard Keane could have made about Question Time in both Houses of Parliament on Tuesday was which political party likes which Olympic athletes. In the Reps, just before QT commenced, Kevin Rudd singled out Jared Tallent, Stephanie Rice, Emma Snowsill, Grant Hackett, Steve Hooker and Matthew Mitcham for special praise, while Brendan Nelson selected Stephanie Rice, James Tomkins, Steve Hooker, Ken Wallace and Drew Ginn. Over in the Senate, Chris Evans took the first Dorothy Dixer, which asked about the Beijing Olympics, and he singled out Matthew Mitcham, Steve Hooker, Anna Meares and Grant Hackett. Both the PM and the Senate Leader praised Australia's first out-and-proud gay athlete going into a Games, Diving Gold Medallist Matthew Mitcham, but the homophobic Brendan Nelson dared not speak his name.<br /><br /> One of the interesting comparisons that Bernard Keane could have made about Question Time in both Houses of Parliament on Tuesday was which political party likes which Olympic athletes. In the Reps, just before QT commenced, Kevin Rudd singled out Jared Tallent, Stephanie Rice, Emma Snowsill, Grant Hackett, Steve Hooker and Matthew Mitcham for special praise, while Brendan Nelson selected Stephanie Rice, James Tomkins, Steve Hooker, Ken Wallace and Drew Ginn. Over in the Senate, Chris Evans took the first Dorothy Dixer, which asked about the Beijing Olympics, and he singled out Matthew Mitcham, Steve Hooker, Anna Meares and Grant Hackett. Both the PM and the Senate Leader praised Australia’s first out-and-proud gay athlete going into a Games, Diving Gold Medallist Matthew Mitcham, but the homophobic Brendan Nelson dared not speak his name.

]]> By: John Goldbaum http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/27/nelson-and-costello-sitting-in-a-tree/#comment-4663 John Goldbaum Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-4663 JamesK, you asked how the f-ck do Brendan and his parents and the rest of the family know that their family member is gay? That is the whole point. They don't know until it's too late to undo the harmful homophobic attitudes they have displayed! JamesK, you asked how the f-ck do Brendan and his parents and the rest of the family know that their family member is gay? That is the whole point. They don’t know until it’s too late to undo the harmful homophobic attitudes they have displayed!

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