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	<title>Comments on: Our AFP and the total Haneef c-ck up</title>
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		<title>By: thronk</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21197</link>
		<dc:creator>thronk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21197</guid>
		<description>It was clearly NO mistake that the AFP investigating officers were not in court for the bail hearing. This was NOT incompetence. It was most-likely a calculated decision by experienced officers that they could not properly attend court and assist a flawed DDP bail-objection and hoping that the prejudice of  their allegations  and the fact that there was no officer present who could answer the hard questions would be enough to get the DDP over the line. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The AFP MUST BE ASKED  why the investigating officers were not present at the bail hearing and where they were at the time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was clearly NO mistake that the AFP investigating officers were not in court for the bail hearing. This was NOT incompetence. It was most-likely a calculated decision by experienced officers that they could not properly attend court and assist a flawed DDP bail-objection and hoping that the prejudice of  their allegations  and the fact that there was no officer present who could answer the hard questions would be enough to get the DDP over the line. </p>
<p>The AFP MUST BE ASKED  why the investigating officers were not present at the bail hearing and where they were at the time.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21198</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21198</guid>
		<description>The AFP should be completely disbanded and a new force created. Certainly the tainted Keelty should be put out to pasture. All this bunch do is engage in well-publicised child pron busts or drug hauls and even then, the info probably comes from abroad. And they walk hand in hand with utterley corrupt Asian police forces. Boot the lot out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The AFP should be completely disbanded and a new force created. Certainly the tainted Keelty should be put out to pasture. All this bunch do is engage in well-publicised child pron busts or drug hauls and even then, the info probably comes from abroad. And they walk hand in hand with utterley corrupt Asian police forces. Boot the lot out.</p>
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		<title>By: JamesK</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21199</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21199</guid>
		<description>I know this will come as a surprise to the usual hair trigger hot-heads such as Michael, Mark,  Zane and of course the predictable Kevin but this matter is the subject of  a judicial inquiry. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Until that has finished and reports sent to McClelland the government should quite rightly say and do nothing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this will come as a surprise to the usual hair trigger hot-heads such as Michael, Mark,  Zane and of course the predictable Kevin but this matter is the subject of  a judicial inquiry. </p>
<p>Until that has finished and reports sent to McClelland the government should quite rightly say and do nothing.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Liberts</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21200</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Liberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21200</guid>
		<description>And on that very topic, JamesK:&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&quot;The problem with the Clarke inquiry is that it is not a “judicial inquiry”, a court of law or, more relevantly, a royal commission. Rather, it is an informal inquiry without the powers of a royal commission to procure files, compel witnesses to attend and give evidence and, most importantly, it has no ability to afford protection to witnesses for the evidence they may provide.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Nor, as an informal inquiry, and not a court of law, does the inquiry offer any right of appeal from its conclusions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The Federal Government has maintained that a royal commission would be too expensive and take too long. There are many precedents for royal commissions meeting deadlines and being cost-effective.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Also, the Attorney-General has suggested that royal commission powers of investigation were not needed as all relevant agencies and key witnesses concerned have indicated a willingness to assist the inquiry.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;While no one doubts the abilities of Clarke, it is not known whether his inquiry, without royal commission powers of investigation, will be able to gain all the files from relevant agencies and to ensure all witnesses come forward.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Experience suggests that when reputations, careers and organisational interests are at stake, voluntary co-operation quickly declines.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Persistent use of the term “judicial inquiry” may just reflect a lack of appreciation of this matter.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7333&amp;page=0&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And on that very topic, JamesK:</p>
<p><span class="dquo">&#8220;</span>The problem with the Clarke inquiry is that it is not a “judicial inquiry”, a court of law or, more relevantly, a royal commission. Rather, it is an informal inquiry without the powers of a royal commission to procure files, compel witnesses to attend and give evidence and, most importantly, it has no ability to afford protection to witnesses for the evidence they may provide.</p>
<p>Nor, as an informal inquiry, and not a court of law, does the inquiry offer any right of appeal from its conclusions.</p>
<p>The Federal Government has maintained that a royal commission would be too expensive and take too long. There are many precedents for royal commissions meeting deadlines and being cost-effective.</p>
<p>Also, the Attorney-General has suggested that royal commission powers of investigation were not needed as all relevant agencies and key witnesses concerned have indicated a willingness to assist the inquiry.</p>
<p>While no one doubts the abilities of Clarke, it is not known whether his inquiry, without royal commission powers of investigation, will be able to gain all the files from relevant agencies and to ensure all witnesses come forward.</p>
<p>Experience suggests that when reputations, careers and organisational interests are at stake, voluntary co-operation quickly declines.</p>
<p>Persistent use of the term “judicial inquiry” may just reflect a lack of appreciation of this matter.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7333&#038;page=0" rel="nofollow">http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=7333&#038;page=0</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dave Liberts</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21201</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Liberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21201</guid>
		<description>To all those wondering when the new Government will do something about this, I can only say take your collective hands off it. The Government will prioritise the NEED to be SEEN TO BE tough on terror ahead of defending the clearly innocent Dr Haneef because it&#039;s paranoid about what the Libs will say about this. They&#039;ll also back the AFP on the basis that they have to live with them, and considering as they haven&#039;t yet sacked Keelty, it&#039;s safe to say they won&#039;t do this (at least because of Haneef anyway). Forget justice, forget what&#039;s right, just remember we&#039;re dealing with policy made by jumpy media flacks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To all those wondering when the new Government will do something about this, I can only say take your collective hands off it. The Government will prioritise the NEED to be SEEN TO BE tough on terror ahead of defending the clearly innocent Dr Haneef because it&#8217;s paranoid about what the Libs will say about this. They&#8217;ll also back the AFP on the basis that they have to live with them, and considering as they haven&#8217;t yet sacked Keelty, it&#8217;s safe to say they won&#8217;t do this (at least because of Haneef anyway). Forget justice, forget what&#8217;s right, just remember we&#8217;re dealing with policy made by jumpy media flacks.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21202</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21202</guid>
		<description>Rudd&#039;s made no particular effort to secure a transparent outcome to the Clarke Inquiry because no Party is prepared to use &#039;national security&#039; to evidence the other as politically corrupt. Both of the major parties like to enjoy &#039;liberties&#039; in government and use the same policies and processes to protect their own. There&#039;s not much difference as we discovered in the last run up to the federal election between either, with both complicit on Party unity taking precedence over all else.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rudd&#8217;s made no particular effort to secure a transparent outcome to the Clarke Inquiry because no Party is prepared to use &#8216;national security&#8217; to evidence the other as politically corrupt. Both of the major parties like to enjoy &#8216;liberties&#8217; in government and use the same policies and processes to protect their own. There&#8217;s not much difference as we discovered in the last run up to the federal election between either, with both complicit on Party unity taking precedence over all else.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Charles Herbert</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21203</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Charles Herbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21203</guid>
		<description>Zane: I&#039;m with you 100%...we&#039;re all waiting for Rudd&#039;s cabinet to act in this matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zane: I&#8217;m with you 100%&#8230;we&#8217;re all waiting for Rudd&#8217;s cabinet to act in this matter.</p>
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		<title>By: JamesK</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21204</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21204</guid>
		<description>Thanks Dave, but from your reference it is not unreasonable to call it a judicial inquiry and it is unfair to say that it is NOT a judicial inquiry!&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&quot;The term “judicial inquiry” is applied to the Clarke inquiry and similar inquiries such as royal commissions because such bodies are chaired by former or current judges or senior legal counsel.&lt;br /&gt;In fact, although these inquiries, especially royal commissions, may have the outward trappings of courts, they are not “judicial” or courts in any way.&lt;br /&gt;The problem with the Clarke inquiry is that it is not a “judicial inquiry”, a court of law or, more relevantly, a royal commission. Rather, it is an informal inquiry without the powers of a royal commission to procure files, compel witnesses to attend and give evidence and, most importantly, it has no ability to afford protection to witnesses for the evidence they may provide.&quot;&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;That said thanks again for the information</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dave, but from your reference it is not unreasonable to call it a judicial inquiry and it is unfair to say that it is NOT a judicial inquiry!</p>
<p><span class="dquo">&#8220;</span>The term “judicial inquiry” is applied to the Clarke inquiry and similar inquiries such as royal commissions because such bodies are chaired by former or current judges or senior legal counsel.<br />In fact, although these inquiries, especially royal commissions, may have the outward trappings of courts, they are not “judicial” or courts in any way.<br />The problem with the Clarke inquiry is that it is not a “judicial inquiry”, a court of law or, more relevantly, a royal commission. Rather, it is an informal inquiry without the powers of a royal commission to procure files, compel witnesses to attend and give evidence and, most importantly, it has no ability to afford protection to witnesses for the evidence they may provide.&#8221;</p>
<p>That said thanks again for the information</p>
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		<title>By: Zane</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21205</link>
		<dc:creator>Zane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21205</guid>
		<description>When will the Attorney General come out of hiding and start doing his job. it was bad enough Labor sat back during the initial arrest and interrogation while in opposition, too frightened to have a go at Howards disgraceful scheme, in case it upset the electorate. No chance of to hell with votes, but do the right thing by Dr Haneef!!!!!. Of course not. Only when it appeared they would be on safe ground with the voters did Labor offer a timid rebuke of Andrews and the Feds. Its time they got involved in this ongoing sore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When will the Attorney General come out of hiding and start doing his job. it was bad enough Labor sat back during the initial arrest and interrogation while in opposition, too frightened to have a go at Howards disgraceful scheme, in case it upset the electorate. No chance of to hell with votes, but do the right thing by Dr Haneef!!!!!. Of course not. Only when it appeared they would be on safe ground with the voters did Labor offer a timid rebuke of Andrews and the Feds. Its time they got involved in this ongoing sore.</p>
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		<title>By: CW</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21206</link>
		<dc:creator>CW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21206</guid>
		<description>What has happened to our justice system?  Does not a prima facie case have to be proved upfront?  If the facts to ground a charge never existed, is there a wrong that courts cannot remedy?  Perhaps courts of law should be disbanded in favour of court that possess equity, with a fair go taking precedence over intergovernmental assumptions of guilt -- a job best done by a court of law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What has happened to our justice system?  Does not a prima facie case have to be proved upfront?  If the facts to ground a charge never existed, is there a wrong that courts cannot remedy?  Perhaps courts of law should be disbanded in favour of court that possess equity, with a fair go taking precedence over intergovernmental assumptions of guilt&thinsp;&#8212;&thinsp;a job best done by a court of law.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark A Clarkson</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21207</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark A Clarkson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21207</guid>
		<description>The only thing different about the Haneef case is that it received the focus of much media attention. The conduct of the AFP and CDPP in that case is familiar to those experienced in the criminal administration of justice as the daily fare of the criminal courts throughout Australia in State and Federal prosecutions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Everybody believes what the prosecution and the police say and believe nothing said in defence of the &quot;criminal&quot; or the &quot;terrorist&quot;. This gives the Commonwealth and the State Crown a Licence to Lie and they exploit this advantage wherever possible. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The dearth of evidence is often buried behind secrecy provisions. We do not want to show you our evidence because then you will see we do not have any.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Much corruption is disguised as incompetence. This was not so much a cock-up or SNAFU but a Fit-up. The verbal, the bash and the load are alive and well in Australia. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Another politically inspired &quot;Muslim-over-Board&quot; from the Howard era comes home to roost. Mick Keelty should know that if you run with the foxes, you can get shot for your pelt.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As long as the Summum bonum rules, that black putrid thread that runs through Australian justice will continue to demand that nothing is sacred, no one is barred and no act is too low, as long as you can at least claim to be acting for the &quot;greater good&quot;. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;In Australia the end does justify the means. The notion, &quot;we got a conviction, they must have been guilty&quot; is supported by all the Appellate Courts who look only at the veracity of the conviction in terms of the notion that the criminal must have been guilty anyhow and steadfastly refuse to consider the lawfulness of the means used to perpetrate the convictions obtained. Any unlawful and corrupt means are mere “lesser evils” tolerated and required to serve the &quot;greater good&quot;.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If the &quot;mistakes&quot; had not been discovered until after the trial and conviction of Haneef, no Appellate Court in Australia would have overturned the conviction. Haneef would have been just another Lindy Chamberlain. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;&quot;Kangaroo Justice&quot; perpetrated in &quot;Kangaroo Courts&quot; will continue to be notorious throughout the civilized World as long as &quot;due process of the law&quot; remains as subjugated as the citizen. Welcome to Australia Dr Haneef.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only thing different about the Haneef case is that it received the focus of much media attention. The conduct of the AFP and CDPP in that case is familiar to those experienced in the criminal administration of justice as the daily fare of the criminal courts throughout Australia in State and Federal prosecutions.</p>
<p>Everybody believes what the prosecution and the police say and believe nothing said in defence of the &#8220;criminal&#8221; or the &#8220;terrorist&#8221;. This gives the Commonwealth and the State Crown a Licence to Lie and they exploit this advantage wherever possible. </p>
<p>The dearth of evidence is often buried behind secrecy provisions. We do not want to show you our evidence because then you will see we do not have any.</p>
<p>Much corruption is disguised as incompetence. This was not so much a cock-up or SNAFU but a Fit-up. The verbal, the bash and the load are alive and well in Australia. </p>
<p>Another politically inspired &#8220;Muslim-over-Board&#8221; from the Howard era comes home to roost. Mick Keelty should know that if you run with the foxes, you can get shot for your pelt.</p>
<p>As long as the Summum bonum rules, that black putrid thread that runs through Australian justice will continue to demand that nothing is sacred, no one is barred and no act is too low, as long as you can at least claim to be acting for the &#8220;greater good&#8221;. </p>
<p>In Australia the end does justify the means. The notion, &#8220;we got a conviction, they must have been guilty&#8221; is supported by all the Appellate Courts who look only at the veracity of the conviction in terms of the notion that the criminal must have been guilty anyhow and steadfastly refuse to consider the lawfulness of the means used to perpetrate the convictions obtained. Any unlawful and corrupt means are mere “lesser evils” tolerated and required to serve the &#8220;greater good&#8221;.</p>
<p>If the &#8220;mistakes&#8221; had not been discovered until after the trial and conviction of Haneef, no Appellate Court in Australia would have overturned the conviction. Haneef would have been just another Lindy Chamberlain. </p>
<p><span class="dquo">&#8220;</span>Kangaroo Justice&#8221; perpetrated in &#8220;Kangaroo Courts&#8221; will continue to be notorious throughout the civilized World as long as &#8220;due process of the law&#8221; remains as subjugated as the citizen. Welcome to Australia Dr Haneef.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/08/20/our-afp-and-the-total-haneef-c-ck-up/#comment-21208</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-21208</guid>
		<description>Zane is correct-where the hell is Robert McClelland or have we elected a friggin mouse ?. I get the horrible feeling that all the Howard government atrocities are going to be swept under the carpet by Rudd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zane is correct-where the hell is Robert McClelland or have we elected a friggin mouse ?. I get the horrible feeling that all the Howard government atrocities are going to be swept under the carpet by Rudd.</p>
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