Comments on: Andrews left naked by innocent Haneef ‘secret dossier’

By: Dave Liberts

Dave Liberts — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Also, JamesK, while I’d never disagree with your comment that the allegation that “Kevin Andrews lied to the Australian people” is indeed extraordinarily serious, I think we’re in a tiny minority. Most Australians regard the performances of Kevin Andrews as being similar to those of Alexander “I can’t recall” Downer and John “No one brought it to my attention” Howard. Lies were a daily occurance and were perfectly normal.

By: Dave Liberts

Dave Liberts — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

JamesK, it goes without saying you are correct that I have relied on firmly held belief without a skerrick of factual evidence. But it equally goes without saying that what is factually correct and what the official investigation reveals are by no means necessarily one and the same thing. What powers and terms of reference an investigation have determines outcomes, not the facts of what actually happened. Any other view is simply naive.

By: JamesK

JamesK — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

There was a judicial inquiry into AWB scandal and there is one presently into the Haneef affair.

If Andrews deported Haneef for political rather than security reasons it will be uncovered ( and I, for one, am concerned that was the case).
Doubtless the inquiry will be critical of both the DPP and AFP.

This article on a secondhand hearsay from "a former Howard government official" is the issue I originally commented on.

Willfull lying to the AWB inquiry would have almost certainly have been followed by a criminal charge and have been noted in the findings.

You have your beliefs but when smearing another individual you should be armed with facts.

By: Dave Liberts

Dave Liberts — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

My totally uninformed guess is that the current Immigration Minister would be under pressure not to go hard on Andrew’s handling of this matter from two fronts. First, the need for the Government to be seen as being at least as tough on suspected terrorists as its predecessor (irrespective of whether those suspects are totally cleared of all suspicion or not) and second, the pressure from Mick Keelty to keep the clouds of doubt hanging over Haneef rather than admit it was all a big balls-up (irrespective of whether 99% of the population are already aware it was a big balls-up or not).

By: Kevin Charles Herbert

Kevin Charles Herbert — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

JamesK: you obviously find it hard to espouse any of the number of levels on which you base your claim…what’s new????

Being included in your ‘idiot commentators above’ group, is a badge of honour for mine…..namecalling, stereotyping et al is not my idea of an informed debate…well, except in Israel where it’s the staple of all political analysis…..grow up, you dolt !!!!!!!!!!!

By: Dave Liberts

Dave Liberts — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Oh, and I forgot to include the requisite “I don’t recalls” as one of the key ingredients of any official inquiry.

By: JamesK

JamesK — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Dave Liberts: That the DPP and AFP were cackhanded in the management of this case is surely beyond question.

If it were proved that John Howard, Kevin Andrews and/or Alexander Downer willfully deceived the Australian people then criminal charges would be laid.

Be sensible and put aside political antipathies: Did John Howard, Kevin Andrews and/or Alexander Downer contrary to advice received from statutory sources lie to the Australian people?

By: Kevin Charles Herbert

Kevin Charles Herbert — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

John Winston Howard: slimeball Prime Minister of Australia.

And to think that weasel strides both the local & international community in the guise of a person of substance.

Howard stood for absolutely nothing except getting re-elected.

Australia's worst PM by a country mile

By: Kevin Charles Herbert

Kevin Charles Herbert — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

My success is complete…no more JamesK for me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By: Dave Liberts

Dave Liberts — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

JamesK, I firmly believe Downer lied about the AWB scandal and dragged Howard into these lies too. I also believe that lies were told about the children overboard matter by a number of Ministers, including Howard. I believe that Andrews and Ruddock lied about the evidence against Haneef in order to ramp up the ‘tough on terror’ rhetoric. I don’t seriously expect anyone to do anything about any of this. I do believe there is a bit of a code of silence among MPs on all sides not to get too personal when an incoming government gets its hands on the outgoing government’s files. Wave a big financial black hole around, sure, but don’t come up with conclusive evidence that someone lied under oath.

By: JamesK

JamesK — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Dave, I know your references were broader than the issue at hand and my reply was purposely equally broad.

By: JamesK

JamesK — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

This whole article is premised on the following quote from 'a former Howard government official' : "It wasn't concerned with any incriminating evidence against Haneef but went to the question of his association with the guys in the UK who were suspected to have been involved in criminal conduct."

Also Mr Andrews’ "secret dossier" is available to the present incumbent Minister for Immigration.

The implicit allegation here is extraordinarily serious: namely that Kevin Andrews lied to the Australian people people. If he has then the present incumbent would know it.

Greg Barns, who unlike the idiot commemtators above should know better, is guilty of a media beat-up or more seriously subjugating an individual to trial by media.

I have been following his articles on this topic in Crikey and I mostly support them but this article is poor on a number of levels

By: Dennis

Dennis — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

The more the dirt, that was swept under the carpet, is revealed about this coverup by Andrews, Howard and the Feds, the more the need for a complete open enquirey. It is even more obvious the Coalition was prepared to sacrifice the career and reputation of this doctor for their own fear campaign, their political advantage and to deceive the electorate they were trying to convince. Andrews should be tossed out on his worthless neck by his electorate for allowing his Ministerial office and his blind loyalty to Howard become a tool of deception. The Labor Govt has a moral duty to open this can of worms and deal with those who sought to bring down a man who had done nothing to deserve such shameful treatment by men willing to hold on to power regardless of whom they would destroy in the process.

By: Chris

Chris — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

It may have missed the average Aussie, but John Howard’s remorseful benchmark in Australian politics as the architect of religious and racial persecution and assassin of his own devout Liberal scribes including Andrews and Ruddock will be his Party’s crucifix for several decades. It’s why the Costellos, Abbotts, Turnbulls and Bishops have as much chance of returning to a normal political ‘lifestyle’ as Mohammed Haneef, the children overboard and the too long-detained innocents still incarcerated in our detention centres.

By: Michael

Michael — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Howard is all the things previously mentioned but will AG Rober McClelland do the hard task needed ?. He has acted with complete caution so far-perhaps his lawyer training has taught him to do so but to date he hasn't given us much reason to feel confident. The Haneef inquiry is hampered and McClelland looks like rolling over and allowing the AFP to escape scott free for their appaling mis-use of power.

Australia desperately needs a complete overhaul of security services and the AFP and has so since they either fed the people of this country false information used by Howard to take us into a war-or in turn were fed that false info by our so-called allies.

Either way-how can we feel confident they have our best interests at heart ?. As for the AFP-expect more well publicised drug busts etc as Keelty attempts to cement his power-this is a man with no scruples -who turned over the Bali Nine to a country with a completely corrupt judiciary and armed forces-who hindered Shappelle Corby's trial-who participated in people smuggling and who claims falsely that he is responsible for the drop in drig OD's when it was actually hard working hospital staff in the inner cities who have saved drug users.

Nor has the supply of ilicit drugs dried up despite this guys repeated claims-either he is completely stupid ( or thinks we are) or has never visited Kings Cross or Oxford St in Sydney were everything is still freely available. He should have been put out to pasture years ago-he's dangerous and a threat to democracy.

By: Dave Liberts

Dave Liberts — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

JamesK, I was being a bit broader than just the Haneef issue in my references to Howard and Downer. My point was that lies were an everyday feature of their government, whether or not they explicitly lied on Haneef I’m not sure off the top of my head. But contrary to your statement, I’m sure that if they were found to have lied, they would face no sanctions at all. I think most reasonably minded people had a lot of doubts about statements Downer and Howard made under oath about the AWB matter, where lying was illegal and punishable, yet this was never and will never be pursued too far. Lying on talkback radio is no crime at all.

By: Bill Marshall

Bill Marshall — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Isn’t is a sickening litany of the lies and deception that the Howard years spawned. They rode into power on the tails of another great facade in the Petrov Affair and this had similar connotations to the Haneef witchhunt although now they (your local conservative) were trying to con the voters that their fridge magnets had some credence..yes I was alarmed and sickened by the constant barrage of mistruths foisted through the usual channels of the Australian press which acted as their faithful conduits.Thankfully a majority of Australian had the sense to see the truth.

By: Pete

Pete — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000

Thanks to this sort of behaviour, its hard to think of politics without having a high level of cynicism. In the wake of Tampa, I don’t know anyone that genuinely bought the lines spun on Dr Haneef, David Hicks, asylum seekers, Iraq (don’t mention the oil) etc. From the lanslide at the last election, I would guess this kind of cynical political scaremongering isn’t so effective anymore - looks like Howard and the Libs were one-trick ponies.

By: Kevin Charles Herbert

Kevin Charles Herbert — Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000