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	<title>Comments on: 457 visa argument revives anti-migrant sentiments</title>
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	<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/24/457-visa-argument-revives-anti-migrant-sentiments/</link>
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		<title>By: steve martin</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/24/457-visa-argument-revives-anti-migrant-sentiments/#comment-18497</link>
		<dc:creator>steve martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18497</guid>
		<description>It is scarcely surprising that as capital and finance have gone global that labor should follow suit. The US economy is to a large extent relying on labor from Mexico and Central America for many of the low paid jobs, and in Europe free movement of labor within the European Union is permitted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is scarcely surprising that as capital and finance have gone global that labor should follow suit. The US economy is to a large extent relying on labor from Mexico and Central America for many of the low paid jobs, and in Europe free movement of labor within the European Union is permitted.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Bartlett</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/24/457-visa-argument-revives-anti-migrant-sentiments/#comment-18498</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18498</guid>
		<description>Dear Clive&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I have always assumed &quot;PC Crap&quot; is when people refuse to use straight talk if it conflicts with either their own or other people&#039;s sensitivities. I don&#039;t know why that should extend to people being immune from correction or criticism when they use simplistic assertions to attack migration and migrants.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I am sorry you feel it is bullying for me express my opinion and thus feel the need to respond with abuse. It is a simple fact that Hanson&#039;s party often used simplistic assertions regarding the inability of Australia&#039;s environment to handle more people as one of their justifications for opposing migration. For a short period the Democrats official policy also had an anti-migration component using this justification. If you want to extrapolate that fact to a personal accusation of &#039;racist xenophobe&#039; you can, but I didn&#039;t use those words - perhaps you can accuse me of being &#039;PC&#039;?  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The simple reason why &quot;on average&quot; (and there is an awful lot of variation hidden underneath those averages) &quot;the greenhouse emissions of a person who migrates to Australia are around double those the person would have been responsible for if they had not migrated&quot; is because (a) many of those people come from vastly poorer circumstances and (b) Australians have amongst the most profligate and wasteful lifestyles on the planet when it comes to greenhouse emissions.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I presume no one is seriously arguing we can encourage the rest of the world to adopt a greenhouse target strategy which involves them staying poorer, so we need to be focusing on reducing emissions overall rather than kidding ourselves that where people live at any one time will somehow help. The notion that lifting the drawbridge (now that we&#039;ve come here of course) will help even slightly in sustainably reducing global greenhouse emissions is simply silly.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;So we either keep poor people from poor countries living in poverty (an approach which directly correlates with much higher birthrates, it should be noted), or we reduce profligacy amongst people who live in Australia, migrant or not. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Given the current debates around the ETS Green Paper, it seems as a nation we are so wedded to every single aspect of our lifestyles that to even raise the idea that we might to need to engage in air travel less often, or consume less meat and dairy products, is seen as heresy. Blaming migrants is a distraction which helps us avoid focusing on our existing shortcomings, although as my original piece pointed out, it is a time honoured practice (in most countries, not just Australia).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Clive</p>
<p>I have always assumed &#8220;PC Crap&#8221; is when people refuse to use straight talk if it conflicts with either their own or other people&#8217;s sensitivities. I don&#8217;t know why that should extend to people being immune from correction or criticism when they use simplistic assertions to attack migration and migrants.</p>
<p>I am sorry you feel it is bullying for me express my opinion and thus feel the need to respond with abuse. It is a simple fact that Hanson&#8217;s party often used simplistic assertions regarding the inability of Australia&#8217;s environment to handle more people as one of their justifications for opposing migration. For a short period the Democrats official policy also had an anti-migration component using this justification. If you want to extrapolate that fact to a personal accusation of &#8216;racist xenophobe&#8217; you can, but I didn&#8217;t use those words - perhaps you can accuse me of being &#8216;PC&#8217;?  </p>
<p>The simple reason why &#8220;on average&#8221; (and there is an awful lot of variation hidden underneath those averages) &#8220;the greenhouse emissions of a person who migrates to Australia are around double those the person would have been responsible for if they had not migrated&#8221; is because (a) many of those people come from vastly poorer circumstances and (b) Australians have amongst the most profligate and wasteful lifestyles on the planet when it comes to greenhouse emissions.</p>
<p>I presume no one is seriously arguing we can encourage the rest of the world to adopt a greenhouse target strategy which involves them staying poorer, so we need to be focusing on reducing emissions overall rather than kidding ourselves that where people live at any one time will somehow help. The notion that lifting the drawbridge (now that we&#8217;ve come here of course) will help even slightly in sustainably reducing global greenhouse emissions is simply silly.</p>
<p>So we either keep poor people from poor countries living in poverty (an approach which directly correlates with much higher birthrates, it should be noted), or we reduce profligacy amongst people who live in Australia, migrant or not. </p>
<p>Given the current debates around the ETS Green Paper, it seems as a nation we are so wedded to every single aspect of our lifestyles that to even raise the idea that we might to need to engage in air travel less often, or consume less meat and dairy products, is seen as heresy. Blaming migrants is a distraction which helps us avoid focusing on our existing shortcomings, although as my original piece pointed out, it is a time honoured practice (in most countries, not just Australia).</p>
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		<title>By: dermot j mcguire</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/24/457-visa-argument-revives-anti-migrant-sentiments/#comment-18499</link>
		<dc:creator>dermot j mcguire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18499</guid>
		<description>mr hamilton nobody called you a racist. You elected yourself. It is more extreme elements the Jennifer Goldies of this world spring to mind.  Pofaced reactions or measured responses are the better way rather than doing your nut as you have here. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mr hamilton nobody called you a racist. You elected yourself. It is more extreme elements the Jennifer Goldies of this world spring to mind.  Pofaced reactions or measured responses are the better way rather than doing your nut as you have here.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa Crago</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/24/457-visa-argument-revives-anti-migrant-sentiments/#comment-18500</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa Crago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18500</guid>
		<description>Migration and the 457 visas can also be used a political tools. The South Australian Treasurer has just been in the Philippines and has come back and announced 50 000 Philippines will come to SA to fill the &#039;skills shortage&#039;.  SA has the highest unemployment in the country and &#039;true&#039; unemployment in the North and South is up to 20%.  We are loosing industries in car and manufacturing and with our water shortages in the Murraylands even fruit picking is in decline.  It appears that it is cheaper to bring labour in than retrain our own unemployed.  This SA government is failing in wage negotiations and threatens to import labour.  We have abject poverty in our indigenous communities and I am sure many of those young men would love the opportunity to have training for a trade such as auto mechanic.  My pov is our governments are just looking OS for solutions before looking in our own back yard, and I am not an advocate for a White Australia, we all know the original Australians are black.  If we do have to import labour why not look to our pacific islands who are suffering in poverty.  I am sure they can do more than play rugby.&lt;br /&gt;On another note I hope you do not retire from politics your voice for social justice issues is much needed in the world we now live in.  ?&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Migration and the 457 visas can also be used a political tools. The South Australian Treasurer has just been in the Philippines and has come back and announced 50 000 Philippines will come to SA to fill the &#8216;skills shortage&#8217;.  SA has the highest unemployment in the country and &#8216;true&#8217; unemployment in the North and South is up to 20%.  We are loosing industries in car and manufacturing and with our water shortages in the Murraylands even fruit picking is in decline.  It appears that it is cheaper to bring labour in than retrain our own unemployed.  This SA government is failing in wage negotiations and threatens to import labour.  We have abject poverty in our indigenous communities and I am sure many of those young men would love the opportunity to have training for a trade such as auto mechanic.  My pov is our governments are just looking OS for solutions before looking in our own back yard, and I am not an advocate for a White Australia, we all know the original Australians are black.  If we do have to import labour why not look to our pacific islands who are suffering in poverty.  I am sure they can do more than play rugby.<br />On another note I hope you do not retire from politics your voice for social justice issues is much needed in the world we now live in.  ?</p>
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		<title>By: Clive Hamilton</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/24/457-visa-argument-revives-anti-migrant-sentiments/#comment-18501</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive Hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18501</guid>
		<description>Dear Andrew&lt;br /&gt;Some of us will no longer be bullied by your PC crap i.e. that any environmentalist concerned about the impact on greenhouse gas emissions of population growth (including immigration) is a closet Hansonite. It really diminishes you to make that sort of accusation.&lt;br /&gt;You seem unable to understand a very simple fact (demonstrated in an analysis by myself and Hal Turton some years ago). On average, the greenhouse gas emissions of a person who migrates to Australia are around double those the person would have been responsible for if they had not migrated. In other words, migration of people from countries with low per capita emissions to countries with high per capita emissions increases global emissions overall.&lt;br /&gt;This does not mean migration is a bad thing, as there may be other benefits from it. But it is just ignorant to say that migration makes no difference to global emissions.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear Andrew<br />Some of us will no longer be bullied by your PC crap i.e. that any environmentalist concerned about the impact on greenhouse gas emissions of population growth (including immigration) is a closet Hansonite. It really diminishes you to make that sort of accusation.<br />You seem unable to understand a very simple fact (demonstrated in an analysis by myself and Hal Turton some years ago). On average, the greenhouse gas emissions of a person who migrates to Australia are around double those the person would have been responsible for if they had not migrated. In other words, migration of people from countries with low per capita emissions to countries with high per capita emissions increases global emissions overall.<br />This does not mean migration is a bad thing, as there may be other benefits from it. But it is just ignorant to say that migration makes no difference to global emissions.</p>
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		<title>By: Clive Hamilton</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/24/457-visa-argument-revives-anti-migrant-sentiments/#comment-18502</link>
		<dc:creator>Clive Hamilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18502</guid>
		<description>OK Mr McGuire, what is the appropriate response when you are accused of being a racist xenophobe? Po-faced, I presume.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;If you want to see the data read the report titled &quot;Population Growth and Greenhouse Gas Emissions&quot; here&lt;br /&gt;https://www.tai.org.au/?q=node/8&amp;offset=8</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK Mr McGuire, what is the appropriate response when you are accused of being a racist xenophobe? Po-faced, I presume.</p>
<p>If you want to see the data read the report titled &#8220;Population Growth and Greenhouse Gas Emissions&#8221; here<br /><a href="https://www.tai.org.au/?q=node/8&#038;offset=8" rel="nofollow">https://www.tai.org.au/?q=node/8&#038;offset=8</a></p>
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		<title>By: dermot mcguire</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/24/457-visa-argument-revives-anti-migrant-sentiments/#comment-18503</link>
		<dc:creator>dermot mcguire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-18503</guid>
		<description>Mr Hamilton you win no converts to your views by carrying on in a way that my 7 year old niece would be ashamed to. if you have relevant research reference it *fully*.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;As to PC crap I have  read some of the statements by   Sustainable Population Australia which could almost be seen as hate speech.  &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mr Hamilton you win no converts to your views by carrying on in a way that my 7 year old niece would be ashamed to. if you have relevant research reference it *fully*.  </p>
<p>As to PC crap I have  read some of the statements by   Sustainable Population Australia which could almost be seen as hate speech.  </p>
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