Comments on: How to do a “murraydarling” i.e: absolutely nothing http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/21/how-to-do-a-murraydarling-ie-absolutely-nothing/ now with extra source Sun, 12 Feb 2012 00:58:05 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: John James http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/21/how-to-do-a-murraydarling-ie-absolutely-nothing/#comment-5219 John James Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5219 James and Kevin make interesting and valid observations about the approach of the current federal government to the environmental issues it made so much of prior to the last election. Rudd assured all that ,with the the election of Federal Labor, there would be a new spirit of co-operation between the States and Canberra and the "blame game" would end. Well it has ended and the Victorians remain just as intransigent as they were with Howard. Kevin says we should "pay people to reduce consumption". That is exactly what I thought the solar panel rebate was meant to do and seemed to be doing successfully until Rudd/Wong/Tanner/Swan shafted the industry. Good reading on that topic is in the most recent edition of The Monthly by John Birmingham ( 'The Same Dark Energy' ) in which he describes in graphic detail the assurances given to the Solar Panel operators and how badly they were treated post election when Rudd had to make his "hard decisions". <br />We see the same spin with the "Education Revolution" and Michael Costa,NSW treasurer, in his inimitable style, telling Canberra that this is no revolution if we ( NSW ) have to pay for the services needed to run these laptops. <br />What is happening with the hospital question and how they are to be managed? Again we were told the blame game" would end. To-day women booked to have their babies at a large suburban hospital in Western Sydney were told that they would have to go elsewhere because the safety of obstetric care could no longer be guaranteed. Nicola Roxon, where are you? Busy, no doubt conferring with her State labor colleague, the redoubtable , Reba ( 'Grim Reba' ) Meagher, trying to work out their next press release. James and Kevin make interesting and valid observations about the approach of the current federal government to the environmental issues it made so much of prior to the last election. Rudd assured all that ,with the the election of Federal Labor, there would be a new spirit of co-operation between the States and Canberra and the “blame game” would end. Well it has ended and the Victorians remain just as intransigent as they were with Howard. Kevin says we should “pay people to reduce consumption”. That is exactly what I thought the solar panel rebate was meant to do and seemed to be doing successfully until Rudd/Wong/Tanner/Swan shafted the industry. Good reading on that topic is in the most recent edition of The Monthly by John Birmingham ( ‘The Same Dark Energy’ ) in which he describes in graphic detail the assurances given to the Solar Panel operators and how badly they were treated post election when Rudd had to make his “hard decisions”.
We see the same spin with the “Education Revolution” and Michael Costa,NSW treasurer, in his inimitable style, telling Canberra that this is no revolution if we ( NSW ) have to pay for the services needed to run these laptops.
What is happening with the hospital question and how they are to be managed? Again we were told the blame game” would end. To-day women booked to have their babies at a large suburban hospital in Western Sydney were told that they would have to go elsewhere because the safety of obstetric care could no longer be guaranteed. Nicola Roxon, where are you? Busy, no doubt conferring with her State labor colleague, the redoubtable , Reba ( ‘Grim Reba’ ) Meagher, trying to work out their next press release.

]]> By: Roy Milne http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/21/how-to-do-a-murraydarling-ie-absolutely-nothing/#comment-5220 Roy Milne Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5220 100% agreement!<br />I think it's time the Commonwealth Govt. takes over the Basin. I understand that the Constitution reads that the States have control of the"reasonable use of water"<br />Using water to grow rice and cotton can not be regarded as "reasonable" in a hot ,dry, climate. I would hope that the highest court in the land would agree with me, if the move was challenged by the States. But of course the Senate vote may be a problem 100% agreement!
I think it’s time the Commonwealth Govt. takes over the Basin. I understand that the Constitution reads that the States have control of the”reasonable use of water”
Using water to grow rice and cotton can not be regarded as “reasonable” in a hot ,dry, climate. I would hope that the highest court in the land would agree with me, if the move was challenged by the States. But of course the Senate vote may be a problem

]]> By: Kevin Cox http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/21/how-to-do-a-murraydarling-ie-absolutely-nothing/#comment-5221 Kevin Cox Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5221 It is clear that the trading schemes for water with the Murray Darling or for greenhouse emissions with the Emissions will never get operational and even if they did they will be emasculated.<br /><br />There fortunately another way and that is the investment way. You pay people to reduce consumption but only if they spend the money on helping fix the problem. That is, give people some money if they sell their permits but they must spend the money on infrastructure to save water in the Murray Darling.<br /><br />You pay people who consume less energy but you require them to spend their money on infrastructure to reduce emissions or to generate green energy.<br /><br />Simple, effective and will not address the problem.<br /><br />This is much better than the indirect trading approach which is too open to abuse. Getting people to invest means they will find the way that gives them the most profit and you can arrange it so that the more that is saved or generated the greater the benefit. It is clear that the trading schemes for water with the Murray Darling or for greenhouse emissions with the Emissions will never get operational and even if they did they will be emasculated.

There fortunately another way and that is the investment way. You pay people to reduce consumption but only if they spend the money on helping fix the problem. That is, give people some money if they sell their permits but they must spend the money on infrastructure to save water in the Murray Darling.

You pay people who consume less energy but you require them to spend their money on infrastructure to reduce emissions or to generate green energy.

Simple, effective and will not address the problem.

This is much better than the indirect trading approach which is too open to abuse. Getting people to invest means they will find the way that gives them the most profit and you can arrange it so that the more that is saved or generated the greater the benefit.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/21/how-to-do-a-murraydarling-ie-absolutely-nothing/#comment-5222 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5222 That John Brumby is holding the country to ransom is point I have made before. That is neither an original nor recent observation. It was made by Howard and Turnbull in 2006 and 2007. The obvious corollary of Rudd's financially expensive lack of leadership and the resultant intra-Labor paralysis on this issue is remarkable for the almost deafening silence of the commentators who should be exposing it. That John Brumby is holding the country to ransom is point I have made before. That is neither an original nor recent observation. It was made by Howard and Turnbull in 2006 and 2007. The obvious corollary of Rudd’s financially expensive lack of leadership and the resultant intra-Labor paralysis on this issue is remarkable for the almost deafening silence of the commentators who should be exposing it.

]]> By: Venise Alstergren http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/21/how-to-do-a-murraydarling-ie-absolutely-nothing/#comment-5223 Venise Alstergren Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5223 JamesK: everything in life is seminal. It doesn't help the deeply worrying and catastrophic 'Green Götterdämmerung' for you to piously incant 'I told you so', nor does it matter whether or not a comment is being re-stated. With the average Australian clod you have to keep repeating something a thousand times to get past all the footy in their heads.<br />If you were to stretch your imagination instead of trying to tell other people how effing stupid they are you might come up with something worthwhile. Meanwhile, All of this so called pain the politicians feel, is, of course, just fear that no one will re-elect the bast*rds. This would be the perfect chance for Australian voters to force all governments into a two year term. On the second year, knowing they cannot be re-elected, the government in question might just have the ba*ls to do something positive. But how would anyone stop looking at the cricket......fill in the dots for all the other sports that addle people's brains. What a futile exercise in hope!<br /> <br /><br /> JamesK: everything in life is seminal. It doesn’t help the deeply worrying and catastrophic ‘Green Götterdämmerung’ for you to piously incant ‘I told you so’, nor does it matter whether or not a comment is being re-stated. With the average Australian clod you have to keep repeating something a thousand times to get past all the footy in their heads.
If you were to stretch your imagination instead of trying to tell other people how effing stupid they are you might come up with something worthwhile. Meanwhile, All of this so called pain the politicians feel, is, of course, just fear that no one will re-elect the bast*rds. This would be the perfect chance for Australian voters to force all governments into a two year term. On the second year, knowing they cannot be re-elected, the government in question might just have the ba*ls to do something positive. But how would anyone stop looking at the cricket……fill in the dots for all the other sports that addle people’s brains. What a futile exercise in hope!

]]> By: Lisa Crago http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/21/how-to-do-a-murraydarling-ie-absolutely-nothing/#comment-5224 Lisa Crago Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5224 The political mixing of messages by bringing the ‘climate change’ debate [is it …isn’t it – sceptics vs henny pennies] into the Murray river flows is starting to really p*ss me right off. Living in SA we are at the bottom of the sewer; Adelaide is still under water restrictions after two or is it three years. My 90+grandmother who had a shack on the river most of her life has been saying since the 1960’s that the river is flowing down the toilet since they put in all those big farms up river. She is certainly no ‘anti industry environmental terrorist’ and has always said the answer is simply, move “those farms up north where all the water is”. All the flooding in QLD recently would have had her shack up to the rafters in mud, like it regularly used to. The rain is still there and a change in the ‘global’ pollution levels hasn’t changed that. I agree with the political chatter that NO government has the balls to stand up to big business donations and the media machine that is the electoral cycle, so I pose the question, what as voters, who are responsible for putting our respective spineless media captured short term politicians in power going to do about it…absolutely nothing? [and don’t tell me to vote green or I will politically scream you down] The political mixing of messages by bringing the ‘climate change’ debate [is it …isn’t it – sceptics vs henny pennies] into the Murray river flows is starting to really p*ss me right off. Living in SA we are at the bottom of the sewer; Adelaide is still under water restrictions after two or is it three years. My 90+grandmother who had a shack on the river most of her life has been saying since the 1960’s that the river is flowing down the toilet since they put in all those big farms up river. She is certainly no ‘anti industry environmental terrorist’ and has always said the answer is simply, move “those farms up north where all the water is”. All the flooding in QLD recently would have had her shack up to the rafters in mud, like it regularly used to. The rain is still there and a change in the ‘global’ pollution levels hasn’t changed that. I agree with the political chatter that NO government has the balls to stand up to big business donations and the media machine that is the electoral cycle, so I pose the question, what as voters, who are responsible for putting our respective spineless media captured short term politicians in power going to do about it…absolutely nothing? [and don’t tell me to vote green or I will politically scream you down]

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/21/how-to-do-a-murraydarling-ie-absolutely-nothing/#comment-5225 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5225 Lisa....That Tom McLoughlin, he hath no fear... Lisa….That Tom McLoughlin, he hath no fear…

]]> By: Tom McLoughlin http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/21/how-to-do-a-murraydarling-ie-absolutely-nothing/#comment-5226 Tom McLoughlin Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5226 As an ex Green Party member over 8 years now - just vote Green. As an ex Green Party member over 8 years now - just vote Green.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/21/how-to-do-a-murraydarling-ie-absolutely-nothing/#comment-5227 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-5227 A seminal götterdämmerung gymghana? There's a theme in your comments Venise. Are subliminally referring to some spiritually uplifting, sweaty, organic and environmentally friendly tantric group sex? <br /> A seminal götterdämmerung gymghana? There’s a theme in your comments Venise. Are subliminally referring to some spiritually uplifting, sweaty, organic and environmentally friendly tantric group sex?

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