Comments on: Can somebody please explain the Wilkins Ice Shelf http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/ now with extra source Sun, 12 Feb 2012 08:54:01 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: steve martin http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16603 steve martin Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16603 Please stop confusing people with facts.<br />But seriously the temperature map of temperature anomalies shows large scale warming over the northern hemisphere - surely that is indicative of a changing climate.<br />The only real debate is about the vailidity of some of the climate modelling eg Taroh Matsuno of Japan's Frontier Centre for Global Change, says these models cannot reproduce rainfall patterns in the tropics. The British government's top adviser on climate, Brian Hoskins of Reading University adds: "Models can’t yet simulate the glacial cycle. Many people won't believe them until they can." Please stop confusing people with facts.
But seriously the temperature map of temperature anomalies shows large scale warming over the northern hemisphere - surely that is indicative of a changing climate.
The only real debate is about the vailidity of some of the climate modelling eg Taroh Matsuno of Japan’s Frontier Centre for Global Change, says these models cannot reproduce rainfall patterns in the tropics. The British government’s top adviser on climate, Brian Hoskins of Reading University adds: “Models can’t yet simulate the glacial cycle. Many people won’t believe them until they can.”

]]> By: Bernard Keane http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16604 Bernard Keane Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16604 Heat rises, right? That's why it's going to the top of the world... Heat rises, right? That’s why it’s going to the top of the world…

]]> By: shaygb http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16605 shaygb Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16605 I was so incencsed by Farmers inaccurate ramblings I thought I would respond to correct his idiotic conclusions. Thankfully a number of people beat me to it. For the record Richard the International Panel of Climate Change has clearly stated that the Antarctic has not shown any warming and the modelling does not predict any significant warming in the near future based upon the current emissions scenarios. The majority of predictions indicate that the global warming effect is mostly in the northern hemisphere particularly over land masses. Most modelling predicts that the Antarctic sea ice will thin. We should all ve very thankful for small mercies as the Antarctic ice has significant thermal inertia. This (fingers crossed) will delay warming and subsequent melting of the ice for decades and will (hopefully) prevent cataclysmic sea rise. At least in time for the world to get our greenhouse gas emissions down to a 'no-harm' level. I was so incencsed by Farmers inaccurate ramblings I thought I would respond to correct his idiotic conclusions. Thankfully a number of people beat me to it. For the record Richard the International Panel of Climate Change has clearly stated that the Antarctic has not shown any warming and the modelling does not predict any significant warming in the near future based upon the current emissions scenarios. The majority of predictions indicate that the global warming effect is mostly in the northern hemisphere particularly over land masses. Most modelling predicts that the Antarctic sea ice will thin. We should all ve very thankful for small mercies as the Antarctic ice has significant thermal inertia. This (fingers crossed) will delay warming and subsequent melting of the ice for decades and will (hopefully) prevent cataclysmic sea rise. At least in time for the world to get our greenhouse gas emissions down to a ‘no-harm’ level.

]]> By: bob pritchard http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16606 bob pritchard Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16606 Where is the data/graph that correlates salinity levels with ocean surface temp?<br /><br />Bob<br /> Where is the data/graph that correlates salinity levels with ocean surface temp?

Bob

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16607 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16607 Thanks Chris G., I looked up your reference read it and found one substantive response to it by a climatologist on the blog website itself:<br /><br />By Jan Lindström:<br />"I am very disappointed at your series about the climate change myths. Some of then purely speculative, few references and no non- contradicitng references even there are plenty. It would be fair if you stated that this series is biased and does not seek to give a balanced view. Most of your statements can be debunked by other peer-reviewed articles. Some of them very recent. I am a former aerosol researcher myself and find this black and white descriptions very dangerous to the science as a whole. Sooner or later there is a risk there willl be a tremendous back-lash since the science is NOT settled and there is still a good chance that the final outcome will point towards natural variations in the climate system. The next 5-10 yrs will be crucial. If the alarmist side is right the temperatures will start to climb again otherwise we are in for a drop."<br /><br />So Chris the real culprit in the climate change debate is the person who tell us 'how it really is' rather than telling us the truth: this is my opinion based on the following evidence...<br />"So here we go again... The reason why the Antarcitc is cooling is because there has been an increase in the strength of circumpolar westerly winds in the Southern Ocean...."blahblah<br /><br /> Thanks Chris G., I looked up your reference read it and found one substantive response to it by a climatologist on the blog website itself:

By Jan Lindström:
“I am very disappointed at your series about the climate change myths. Some of then purely speculative, few references and no non- contradicitng references even there are plenty. It would be fair if you stated that this series is biased and does not seek to give a balanced view. Most of your statements can be debunked by other peer-reviewed articles. Some of them very recent. I am a former aerosol researcher myself and find this black and white descriptions very dangerous to the science as a whole. Sooner or later there is a risk there willl be a tremendous back-lash since the science is NOT settled and there is still a good chance that the final outcome will point towards natural variations in the climate system. The next 5-10 yrs will be crucial. If the alarmist side is right the temperatures will start to climb again otherwise we are in for a drop.”

So Chris the real culprit in the climate change debate is the person who tell us ‘how it really is’ rather than telling us the truth: this is my opinion based on the following evidence…
“So here we go again… The reason why the Antarcitc is cooling is because there has been an increase in the strength of circumpolar westerly winds in the Southern Ocean….”blahblah

]]> By: ChrisG http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16608 ChrisG Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16608 Richard's written several stories on the Antarctic cooling. Every time that he raises it as an anomaly, the Crikey readership provide him with the explanation for why its happening and why its not contradictory towards the scientific consensus on climate change. Im not quite sure why he keeps writing this stuff. Its getting a little tedious, frankly.<br /><br />So here we go again... The reason why the Antarcitc is cooling is because there has been an increase in the strength of circumpolar westerly winds in the Southern Ocean. These winds are acting as a barrier to warm air from the temperate latitudes reaching the continent. This is one of the expected results from the enhanced greenhouse effect. If you'd like to know more about it, you can go to New Scientist who have published stories about the phenomenon and has links to peer reviewed research papers - http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11648. Richard’s written several stories on the Antarctic cooling. Every time that he raises it as an anomaly, the Crikey readership provide him with the explanation for why its happening and why its not contradictory towards the scientific consensus on climate change. Im not quite sure why he keeps writing this stuff. Its getting a little tedious, frankly.

So here we go again… The reason why the Antarcitc is cooling is because there has been an increase in the strength of circumpolar westerly winds in the Southern Ocean. These winds are acting as a barrier to warm air from the temperate latitudes reaching the continent. This is one of the expected results from the enhanced greenhouse effect. If you’d like to know more about it, you can go to New Scientist who have published stories about the phenomenon and has links to peer reviewed research papers - http://environment.newscientist.com/channel/earth/climate-change/dn11648.

]]> By: holymoly http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16609 holymoly Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16609 What an inane article! RF wants a tiny subset of geoscience facts of his choosing explained to him - why does he merit the effort? He should do the responsible thing and equip himself with the capability to comprehend it himself, by the standard channels, and leave the guys who are already across this data to the important job of working out what's next... What an inane article! RF wants a tiny subset of geoscience facts of his choosing explained to him - why does he merit the effort? He should do the responsible thing and equip himself with the capability to comprehend it himself, by the standard channels, and leave the guys who are already across this data to the important job of working out what’s next…

]]> By: Julius http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16610 Julius Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16610 I suspect that the zealots lashing Farmer are not too good on the economic arguments and the weaknesses of the Garnaut report and should read Henry Ergas's piece in The Australian (14/7) until they have understood and absorbed it. But if they do understand the relevant science they might also tell me why the passages with "logarithmic" in them in http://brneurosci.org/co2.html don't tellus reliably that the absorption of infra red radiation by CO2 in the atmosphere does not increase exponentially or even as a linear function but logarithmically and may have almost reached saturation point so that it will not trap much more heat. I suspect that the zealots lashing Farmer are not too good on the economic arguments and the weaknesses of the Garnaut report and should read Henry Ergas’s piece in The Australian (14/7) until they have understood and absorbed it. But if they do understand the relevant science they might also tell me why the passages with “logarithmic” in them in http://brneurosci.org/co2.html don’t tellus reliably that the absorption of infra red radiation by CO2 in the atmosphere does not increase exponentially or even as a linear function but logarithmically and may have almost reached saturation point so that it will not trap much more heat.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16611 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16611 Julius! Ur just a DENIER and apart from being insanely STUPID, u need to be crucified because we are all gonna die unless u join The Intelligent (Sheep) genuflecting at the Garnau(t)! Julius! Ur just a DENIER and apart from being insanely STUPID, u need to be crucified because we are all gonna die unless u join The Intelligent (Sheep) genuflecting at the Garnau(t)!

]]> By: steve martin http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16612 steve martin Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16612 Julius;a quote from WS.Kinninmonth former head of the Bureau of Meteorology Climate Centre.- " Carbon dioxide. As a greenhouse gas, it is a spent force for climate change; its present concentration is slightly less than 400 parts per million. Calculations show that 66 per cent of the greenhouse effect of CO2 is caused by the first 50ppm. With each doubling of concentration, (from 50 to 100, then to 200 and 400ppm), the incremental advance of the greenhouse effect is reduced. Julius;a quote from WS.Kinninmonth former head of the Bureau of Meteorology Climate Centre.- ” Carbon dioxide. As a greenhouse gas, it is a spent force for climate change; its present concentration is slightly less than 400 parts per million. Calculations show that 66 per cent of the greenhouse effect of CO2 is caused by the first 50ppm. With each doubling of concentration, (from 50 to 100, then to 200 and 400ppm), the incremental advance of the greenhouse effect is reduced.

]]> By: Richard McGuire http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16613 Richard McGuire Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16613 Richard instead of confusing yourself and everyone else with your satellite images and graphs, take a close look at events on the Antarctic Peninsula over the past 30 years. Yeah that's the thin bit that juts out toward South America. The last time I checked the atlas, it was still firmly attached to the Antarctic continent. Ask yourself why since 1974, this region has lost 13,500 km2 of ice shelf? The breakup of the Wilkins Ice Shelf will simply follow that trend. When you're in a hole stop digging. Richard instead of confusing yourself and everyone else with your satellite images and graphs, take a close look at events on the Antarctic Peninsula over the past 30 years. Yeah that’s the thin bit that juts out toward South America. The last time I checked the atlas, it was still firmly attached to the Antarctic continent. Ask yourself why since 1974, this region has lost 13,500 km2 of ice shelf? The breakup of the Wilkins Ice Shelf will simply follow that trend. When you’re in a hole stop digging.

]]> By: Gaz http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16614 Gaz Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16614 Wouldn't it be nice if Farmer had done a bit of homework before bobbing up here? Wouldn’t it be nice if Farmer had done a bit of homework before bobbing up here?

]]> By: Keith Bedford http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16615 Keith Bedford Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16615 Richard Farmer sold wine in my recollection. He is now like so many stupid pepole trying to use his lack of knowledge of science to extract facts from the scientific evidence to say global warming is not happening. People like JamesK of similar ilk like this. It would be alright if they could go off to their own world and ruin it but we have only one world and I do not like the idea of proving that Richard and JamesK are wrong the hardway. For our sake and the sake of the rest of humanity and the naturlal world please let us take the word of world science and do all we can to prevent the scientific forecasts proving right Richard Farmer sold wine in my recollection. He is now like so many stupid pepole trying to use his lack of knowledge of science to extract facts from the scientific evidence to say global warming is not happening. People like JamesK of similar ilk like this. It would be alright if they could go off to their own world and ruin it but we have only one world and I do not like the idea of proving that Richard and JamesK are wrong the hardway. For our sake and the sake of the rest of humanity and the naturlal world please let us take the word of world science and do all we can to prevent the scientific forecasts proving right

]]> By: Andrew http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16616 Andrew Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16616 A cooling Antarctica and Southern Ocean is just what the GCMs have been predicting, so the data is supporting the AGW hypothesis. You might like to read this for more detail:<br /><br />http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/02/antarctica-is-cold/ A cooling Antarctica and Southern Ocean is just what the GCMs have been predicting, so the data is supporting the AGW hypothesis. You might like to read this for more detail:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2008/02/antarctica-is-cold/

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/15/can-somebody-please-explain-the-wilkins-ice-shelf/#comment-16617 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-16617 Good on you Richard Farmer! Honesty wrt climate change from a Crikey writer. Giving a 'cool' précis of data rather than the scaremongering 'cooking' from Keane. Might we now calmly have a rational debate about how as a nation we respond? Or is that too much to hope for on this lone positive from Crikey? Good on you Richard Farmer! Honesty wrt climate change from a Crikey writer. Giving a ‘cool’ précis of data rather than the scaremongering ‘cooking’ from Keane. Might we now calmly have a rational debate about how as a nation we respond? Or is that too much to hope for on this lone positive from Crikey?

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