Comments on: Stephen Mayne: How we killed the Democrats http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/ now with extra source Sun, 22 Nov 2009 03:36:40 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Gary Carroll http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23362 Gary Carroll Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23362 Don't get to carried away. It was the GST that lost their electorial appeal, plain and simple. The Libs seem to have finally accepted their loss factor was WorkChoises. Don’t get to carried away. It was the GST that lost their electorial appeal, plain and simple. The Libs seem to have finally accepted their loss factor was WorkChoises.

]]> By: jamie http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23363 jamie Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23363 yes a pretty delusional article. Let's take a step back and look at the Dems strategy and there we can see why they failed. It was ALL about the senate. All about the media coverage that would take them to victory. And it was working for a while there. The turning point was obviously the unpopular GST but the weakness of the party against the might of the pollies and their staff was the real issue. The strategy - get senators elected missed the whole grass roots building strategy the Greens pursued. Below the senators it was pretty empty. Just look at their representation in local communites on shire and municipal councils. One or two councillors if they were lucky. The Greens? Scores of the buggers all over the place. So the balance in the Dems was all top heavy and when the house of cards began to come unstuck the party didnt have the capacity to hold it together. It was all about the leadership. I mean they could hardly even get registered in NSW and they only needed 750 members! <br /><br />For mine its a lesson about organisation and strategy not about Natasha. The infighting was just a symptom of a strategy that had to fail sooner or later. With no base and no active membership, no real presence in the community - doomed to failure. yes a pretty delusional article. Let’s take a step back and look at the Dems strategy and there we can see why they failed. It was ALL about the senate. All about the media coverage that would take them to victory. And it was working for a while there. The turning point was obviously the unpopular GST but the weakness of the party against the might of the pollies and their staff was the real issue. The strategy - get senators elected missed the whole grass roots building strategy the Greens pursued. Below the senators it was pretty empty. Just look at their representation in local communites on shire and municipal councils. One or two councillors if they were lucky. The Greens? Scores of the buggers all over the place. So the balance in the Dems was all top heavy and when the house of cards began to come unstuck the party didnt have the capacity to hold it together. It was all about the leadership. I mean they could hardly even get registered in NSW and they only needed 750 members!

For mine its a lesson about organisation and strategy not about Natasha. The infighting was just a symptom of a strategy that had to fail sooner or later. With no base and no active membership, no real presence in the community - doomed to failure.

]]> By: Michael http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23364 Michael Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23364 Sorry Stephen, it was the GST that did them in and it was Meg Lees who was being Duchessed - by John Howard! Or did you forget that bit.<br /><br />Natasha had a lot going for her and she still has my respect - far more than virtually any of the others. Sorry Stephen, it was the GST that did them in and it was Meg Lees who was being Duchessed - by John Howard! Or did you forget that bit.

Natasha had a lot going for her and she still has my respect - far more than virtually any of the others.

]]> By: Di Day http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23365 Di Day Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23365 I was a member of the Democrats until the leadership challenge between Meg and Nat. I went to the meeting in Perth to hear a balanced, intelligent presentation from Meg countered by an irrational, slovenly, emotional piece of attempted button-pushing by Nat. From the outcome of that meeting, I knew I would be leaving the Party.<br />I thought Meg Lees had done as good a job as possible about the GST. The Howard Government had the power to do whatever it damned well pleased and at least Meg forced it to remove basic foodstuffs from the GST. I think she forced a small concession in a situation where John W. didn't have to concede at all. <br />The Democrats have had so many chances, have attracted so many talented members. So sad that a party created to keep the bastard honest should have been brough down by a political Barbie-doll.<br /><br /> I was a member of the Democrats until the leadership challenge between Meg and Nat. I went to the meeting in Perth to hear a balanced, intelligent presentation from Meg countered by an irrational, slovenly, emotional piece of attempted button-pushing by Nat. From the outcome of that meeting, I knew I would be leaving the Party.
I thought Meg Lees had done as good a job as possible about the GST. The Howard Government had the power to do whatever it damned well pleased and at least Meg forced it to remove basic foodstuffs from the GST. I think she forced a small concession in a situation where John W. didn’t have to concede at all.
The Democrats have had so many chances, have attracted so many talented members. So sad that a party created to keep the bastard honest should have been brough down by a political Barbie-doll.

]]> By: Dave Liberts http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23366 Dave Liberts Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23366 Aah the irony of Stephen claiming this scalp. By the late 90's, the Dems were clearly the only small-l liberal political party in Australia, the Libs were well on their way to drowning all their wets. If Stephen never voted Democrat, it was only because he'd retained faith in the Libs to show some of their genuinely liberal traditions (and, lets face it, it was always hard not to think of them as the fairies at the bottom of the garden as Keating joked). Certainly, Stephen's campaign against Costello in Higgins had more than a touch of Dem about it. I'll miss them. The Greens (and I confess I was actually a Greens member for about three months during a horribly confused period in my life) are just too creepy. Aah the irony of Stephen claiming this scalp. By the late 90’s, the Dems were clearly the only small-l liberal political party in Australia, the Libs were well on their way to drowning all their wets. If Stephen never voted Democrat, it was only because he’d retained faith in the Libs to show some of their genuinely liberal traditions (and, lets face it, it was always hard not to think of them as the fairies at the bottom of the garden as Keating joked). Certainly, Stephen’s campaign against Costello in Higgins had more than a touch of Dem about it. I’ll miss them. The Greens (and I confess I was actually a Greens member for about three months during a horribly confused period in my life) are just too creepy.

]]> By: Jean http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23367 Jean Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23367 Oh dear yet another example of why women don't bother trying to get into politics. I have never read such a load of complete rubbish in my life - what's the matter Stephen, wouldn't Natasha bat her eyelashes at you? So Natasha was in politics for 'things other than the political outcome' - give me a f*****g break! So Hawke, Keating, Howard, Downer etc etc were all in it for the 'political outcome' were they - with never a thought for their own 'social climbing'. Pathetic! Bob Hawke admits to affairs and his ratings go up, Cheryl Kernot has an affair with Gareth Evans (notice it wasn't Gareth Evans has an affair with Cheryl Kernot) and she's a slut who has to go. The reason the Democrats declined was that the men took over from more effective women. Aden Ridgeway was useless. This article made me sick - shame on you and Crikey. Oh dear yet another example of why women don’t bother trying to get into politics. I have never read such a load of complete rubbish in my life - what’s the matter Stephen, wouldn’t Natasha bat her eyelashes at you? So Natasha was in politics for ‘things other than the political outcome’ - give me a f*****g break! So Hawke, Keating, Howard, Downer etc etc were all in it for the ‘political outcome’ were they - with never a thought for their own ‘social climbing’. Pathetic! Bob Hawke admits to affairs and his ratings go up, Cheryl Kernot has an affair with Gareth Evans (notice it wasn’t Gareth Evans has an affair with Cheryl Kernot) and she’s a slut who has to go. The reason the Democrats declined was that the men took over from more effective women. Aden Ridgeway was useless. This article made me sick - shame on you and Crikey.

]]> By: Fiona K http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23368 Fiona K Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23368 I'm no major fan of the Tash but Meg Lees blew it for me and lots of others who had sympathies with (and occasional votes for) the Dems. Her GST deal then constant carping and whingeing did nothing to endear her or the democrats to many voters. Whatever NSD did or didn't do behind the scenes should have stayed behind the scenes. Lees' decision to stay on with the Progressive Alliance Party (or PAP) was a blatant contravention of Democrat policy to get out of Parliament when you're out of the party.<br /><br />Give Lees the blame she deserves- and not just for the GST. May she stew in her own bitterness. I’m no major fan of the Tash but Meg Lees blew it for me and lots of others who had sympathies with (and occasional votes for) the Dems. Her GST deal then constant carping and whingeing did nothing to endear her or the democrats to many voters. Whatever NSD did or didn’t do behind the scenes should have stayed behind the scenes. Lees’ decision to stay on with the Progressive Alliance Party (or PAP) was a blatant contravention of Democrat policy to get out of Parliament when you’re out of the party.

Give Lees the blame she deserves- and not just for the GST. May she stew in her own bitterness.

]]> By: Deb http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23369 Deb Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23369 I m with Jean (although I would like to see Aden Ridgeway back now) . And Stephen shame shame<br />Natasha was young and intelligent and beautiful. And that made her your victim. She didn't bat her eyelashes at Christian perhaps..so when he embarked on a crucifixion campaign he was encouraged?? You didnt think fairgo at any stage? No no fair go required for women. To the point of demonizing her YES demonizing, just because she was ambitious ???. Stephen what were you thinking when you wrote this? I am so ashamed. So disappointed. I too feel sickened by it. I m with Jean (although I would like to see Aden Ridgeway back now) . And Stephen shame shame
Natasha was young and intelligent and beautiful. And that made her your victim. She didn’t bat her eyelashes at Christian perhaps..so when he embarked on a crucifixion campaign he was encouraged?? You didnt think fairgo at any stage? No no fair go required for women. To the point of demonizing her YES demonizing, just because she was ambitious ???. Stephen what were you thinking when you wrote this? I am so ashamed. So disappointed. I too feel sickened by it.

]]> By: Stephen http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23370 Stephen Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23370 More opinions than facts. More opinions than facts.

]]> By: Joni Vihrea http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23371 Joni Vihrea Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23371 <br /><br />Yes, thoroughly delusional. The Democrats withered on the vine because of Lees' GST manouevres, and because of the rise of the Greens in almost equal parts. Effectively two parties - a centre-right genuinely liberal one a la Andrew Murray, and a pseudo-Green party. Those who voted for the latter went to the Greens, those for the former went back to Labor, by and large. Still, if Christian had assisted the Greens in taking the third party slot, how sweet the irony would be. Yes, thoroughly delusional. The Democrats withered on the vine because of Lees’ GST manouevres, and because of the rise of the Greens in almost equal parts. Effectively two parties - a centre-right genuinely liberal one a la Andrew Murray, and a pseudo-Green party. Those who voted for the latter went to the Greens, those for the former went back to Labor, by and large. Still, if Christian had assisted the Greens in taking the third party slot, how sweet the irony would be.

]]> By: Nahum Ayliffe http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23372 Nahum Ayliffe Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23372 Stephen, name me one politician who isn't interested in social ladder climbing and gratuitous self promotion, and I'll buy a Collingwood membership. Bob Brown? (Wait, sorry I'm laughing too much), Nick Xenephon, (sorry I've set myself off again), Steve Fielding, (he is a joke in an of himself). Stephen, you're good for a laugh. And what a laugh. Let me know when you're ready to re-enter the real world. Stephen, name me one politician who isn’t interested in social ladder climbing and gratuitous self promotion, and I’ll buy a Collingwood membership. Bob Brown? (Wait, sorry I’m laughing too much), Nick Xenephon, (sorry I’ve set myself off again), Steve Fielding, (he is a joke in an of himself). Stephen, you’re good for a laugh. And what a laugh. Let me know when you’re ready to re-enter the real world.

]]> By: Connor Moran http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23373 Connor Moran Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23373 "More opinion than facts" just about sums up the Right at the best of times. “More opinion than facts” just about sums up the Right at the best of times.

]]> By: Cathy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23374 Cathy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23374 Get real Stephen. Crikey and Christian Kerr were a blip on the media radar in the days when the Democrats did themselves in. From suburban armchairs working Australian families saw Meg sell us out to an even then, hated and mistrusted Howard. En masse or online, Crikey didn't really influence social or political opinion until recently. The Democrats demolished themselves. Kernot's defection, the animosity between Lees and Nat Stot Des, the milk-sop Ridgeway and dopey Bartlett each contributed to a broadbased picture of inadequacy. I don't think Crikey had much to do with the Democrats rise or fall at all. Get real Stephen. Crikey and Christian Kerr were a blip on the media radar in the days when the Democrats did themselves in. From suburban armchairs working Australian families saw Meg sell us out to an even then, hated and mistrusted Howard. En masse or online, Crikey didn’t really influence social or political opinion until recently. The Democrats demolished themselves. Kernot’s defection, the animosity between Lees and Nat Stot Des, the milk-sop Ridgeway and dopey Bartlett each contributed to a broadbased picture of inadequacy. I don’t think Crikey had much to do with the Democrats rise or fall at all.

]]> By: Diana http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23375 Diana Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23375 Not sure who is more hilariously delusional in believing their own unjustified sense of importance: S Mayne or M Lees. Crikey had nothing to do with the final disillusion and exodus of traditional Dem voters. That dishonour belongs to Meg Lees when she got into John Howard's GST bed. I can see her still, doing the old 5 minute handshake with her new best mate for the cameras and Howard grinning like the cat that got the silliest mouse. That was the beginning of the end for the Democrats. Incidentally, at the time I wrote a personal letter to each of the Dems senators setting out why what they were looking like doing (GST) was something Howard had promised not to do (silly me). The only reply was from guess who: the derided Natasha. None of the others bothered, not even St Aden of Ridgway. Not sure who is more hilariously delusional in believing their own unjustified sense of importance: S Mayne or M Lees. Crikey had nothing to do with the final disillusion and exodus of traditional Dem voters. That dishonour belongs to Meg Lees when she got into John Howard’s GST bed. I can see her still, doing the old 5 minute handshake with her new best mate for the cameras and Howard grinning like the cat that got the silliest mouse. That was the beginning of the end for the Democrats. Incidentally, at the time I wrote a personal letter to each of the Dems senators setting out why what they were looking like doing (GST) was something Howard had promised not to do (silly me). The only reply was from guess who: the derided Natasha. None of the others bothered, not even St Aden of Ridgway.

]]> By: JohnJames http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23376 JohnJames Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23376 "More opinion than facts" just about sums up the Left at the best of times. “More opinion than facts” just about sums up the Left at the best of times.

]]> By: Ben Aveling http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23377 Ben Aveling Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23377 What a pity she didn't become leader in 97. What a pity she didn’t become leader in 97.

]]> By: Gary Carroll http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23378 Gary Carroll Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23378 Don't get to carried away. It was the GST that lost their electorial appeal, plain and simple. The Libs seem to have finally accepted their loss factor was WorkChoises. Don’t get to carried away. It was the GST that lost their electorial appeal, plain and simple. The Libs seem to have finally accepted their loss factor was WorkChoises.

]]> By: JohnJames# 2 http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/07/04/stephen-mayne-how-we-killed-the-democrats/#comment-23379 JohnJames# 2 Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-23379 What was that about imitation being a form of ..? What was that about imitation being a form of ..?

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