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	<title>Comments on: Comments, corrections, clarifications, and c*ckups</title>
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		<title>By: JamesK</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/06/20/comments-corrections-clarifications-and-cckups/#comment-19349</link>
		<dc:creator>JamesK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-19349</guid>
		<description>I read Neil James&#039; comment. Then I read Marilyn and Miranda&#039;s.&lt;br /&gt;Who makes an argument and sounds more reasonable?&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read Neil James&#8217; comment. Then I read Marilyn and Miranda&#8217;s.<br />Who makes an argument and sounds more reasonable?</p>
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		<title>By: Marilyn</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/06/20/comments-corrections-clarifications-and-cckups/#comment-19350</link>
		<dc:creator>Marilyn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-19350</guid>
		<description>Is there the remotest chance that Neil James could be gagged?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there the remotest chance that Neil James could be gagged?</p>
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		<title>By: Miranda</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/06/20/comments-corrections-clarifications-and-cckups/#comment-19351</link>
		<dc:creator>Miranda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-19351</guid>
		<description>Speaking of c*ckups-did anyone else notice this morning&#039;s News Ltd website carried an opinion piece titled: Malcolm Farr: Societal breakdown accompanied by a photo of Piers Akermann as the author ?. What is with News Ltd-don&#039;t they employ any sub-editors anymore or they just completely slack ?.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of c*ckups-did anyone else notice this morning&#8217;s News Ltd website carried an opinion piece titled: Malcolm Farr: Societal breakdown accompanied by a photo of Piers Akermann as the author ?. What is with News Ltd-don&#8217;t they employ any sub-editors anymore or they just completely slack ?.</p>
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		<title>By: Miranda</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/06/20/comments-corrections-clarifications-and-cckups/#comment-19352</link>
		<dc:creator>Miranda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-19352</guid>
		<description>Why on earth is Neil James bothering to comment on crikey&#039;s use of terms such as &quot;military intervention&quot; when it was actually Mal Brough and Howard who gave the impression the army was about to invade indigenous communites ?. Why isn&#039;t he  sheeting blame home to where it belongs-to Howard for ignoring these communities for years despite being aware of problems and then suddenly make a spectacular song and dance about it just before a general election ?. If anyone frightened Aboriginal communities into thinking their kids were about to be taken away-it was the exagerated  comments and claims by the Howard government that gave the impression every person in every community was drunk of their skulls and peadophile groups were running rampant. Does James actually believe those who live in remote areas subscribe to crikey.com ?. Whatever this organisation James claims to be head of is, he some how always supports the Coalition viewpoint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why on earth is Neil James bothering to comment on crikey&#8217;s use of terms such as &#8220;military intervention&#8221; when it was actually Mal Brough and Howard who gave the impression the army was about to invade indigenous communites ?. Why isn&#8217;t he  sheeting blame home to where it belongs-to Howard for ignoring these communities for years despite being aware of problems and then suddenly make a spectacular song and dance about it just before a general election ?. If anyone frightened Aboriginal communities into thinking their kids were about to be taken away-it was the exagerated  comments and claims by the Howard government that gave the impression every person in every community was drunk of their skulls and peadophile groups were running rampant. Does James actually believe those who live in remote areas subscribe to crikey.com ?. Whatever this organisation James claims to be head of is, he some how always supports the Coalition viewpoint.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Durnan</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/06/20/comments-corrections-clarifications-and-cckups/#comment-19353</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Durnan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-19353</guid>
		<description>Marion Cincotta rightfully draws attention (Crikey Co*kups, 20.6.08) to the health benefits to some Aboriginal people from living on certain outstations, but fails to mention some important reasons for this, such as the distance of these particular outstations from grog outlets and drug dealers, the extra physical activity required when living on these remote places, the relatively late white settlement or occupation of these lands, and the distance from stores stocking refined flour, sugar, salt, high cholesterol fats and other unhealthy groceries and fast food customarily consumed in large quantities by most poor Australians, including most Aboriginal people. Nor does she mention that many other Aboriginal people living on outstations on their own country where they speak their own language do not experience similar benefits, or do not experience them at the same levels.  Lesson: outstations on your own traditional land, combined with speaking your own language, per se are not sufficient to be an antidote to the horrible effects of colonisation.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;I’m not sure on what empirical evidence she would base her claim that Ntaria is “the most acculturated town”, but she may be interested to learn that since the Intervention started, the rate of funerals at Hermannsburg has decreased markedly, despite the tragic car accident which killed 6 people last December 7th. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;She may also like to meditate on the fact that, outside the Urapuntja region, Hermannsburg has the highest number of outstations in the CA region, with 20 of the 40 outstations permanently occupied at any one time on average. But still Hermannsburg has worse health and higher death rates than many other places. I believe that this may be more related to the concentration of too many culturally traditional but under-educated and under-employed people together in one place for too much of the time, rather than simply colonisation, lack of outstations or degrees of culturation. If more of these people had access to adequately supervised employment, affordable mechanical help (including training) to keep their vehicles roadworthy and were thus able to spend more of their time on their outstations, and if the local police had sufficient staffing to enable the grog and drug laws to be enforced effectively on outstations and in the communities, then it may be a different story.&lt;br /&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Marion Cincotta rightfully draws attention (Crikey Co*kups, 20.6.08) to the health benefits to some Aboriginal people from living on certain outstations, but fails to mention some important reasons for this, such as the distance of these particular outstations from grog outlets and drug dealers, the extra physical activity required when living on these remote places, the relatively late white settlement or occupation of these lands, and the distance from stores stocking refined flour, sugar, salt, high cholesterol fats and other unhealthy groceries and fast food customarily consumed in large quantities by most poor Australians, including most Aboriginal people. Nor does she mention that many other Aboriginal people living on outstations on their own country where they speak their own language do not experience similar benefits, or do not experience them at the same levels.  Lesson: outstations on your own traditional land, combined with speaking your own language, per se are not sufficient to be an antidote to the horrible effects of colonisation.</p>
<p>I’m not sure on what empirical evidence she would base her claim that Ntaria is “the most acculturated town”, but she may be interested to learn that since the Intervention started, the rate of funerals at Hermannsburg has decreased markedly, despite the tragic car accident which killed 6 people last December 7th. </p>
<p>She may also like to meditate on the fact that, outside the Urapuntja region, Hermannsburg has the highest number of outstations in the CA region, with 20 of the 40 outstations permanently occupied at any one time on average. But still Hermannsburg has worse health and higher death rates than many other places. I believe that this may be more related to the concentration of too many culturally traditional but under-educated and under-employed people together in one place for too much of the time, rather than simply colonisation, lack of outstations or degrees of culturation. If more of these people had access to adequately supervised employment, affordable mechanical help (including training) to keep their vehicles roadworthy and were thus able to spend more of their time on their outstations, and if the local police had sufficient staffing to enable the grog and drug laws to be enforced effectively on outstations and in the communities, then it may be a different story.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Durnan</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/06/20/comments-corrections-clarifications-and-cckups/#comment-19354</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Durnan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-19354</guid>
		<description>Neil James makes a valid and long overdue point about the military role in the NT Intervention. I witnessed their arrival and activities in two communities, and there wasn&#039;t a hint of aggression on their part, or any action which wasn&#039;t purely logistical and supportive to the medical teams and public servants &amp; their programs. Certainly no signs of any weaponry either. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Most local Aboriginal people had no fear of the military, having seen them helping out on other occasions (for example, they helped with the logistics with Fred Hollows&#039; early eye-health crusades across these same communities, projects which I also witnessed, as I was a volunteer working on those projects at the time). Many enjoyed talking to them (most of the troops were Aboriginal men &amp; women or other local Norforce members, often related or known to some of the local community people), playing football with them, taking them hunting &amp; to visit country, watching DVDs with them etc. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;The characterisation of the communities as being fearful of the army is mostly misguided &amp; incorrect, and to the extent it is based on fact, I believe that this may have been the result of people in communities which were not visited early in the project, but who picked up on alarmist statements in the media by activists and sceptical commentators, amplified by community workers or members who were offended or anxious about various aspects of the Intervention. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;For example, as a means of engendering alarm &amp; opposition, it possibly became easier to pick on the &quot;military&quot; component, than to try mobilising opposition to the extra policing that threatened many vested political, economic, ideological, grog running &amp; dope dealing interests, or getting people upset about some extra doctors and nurses coming around.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Miranda goes on to claim that &quot;exagerated comments and claims by the Howard government ... gave the impression every person in every community was drunk of their skulls and peadophile groups were running rampant&quot;.  There was some exaggeration in the comments by Brough, Howard &amp; others, but it was very difficult to argue with their general thrust, as reliable statistics indicated that Aboriginal women were experiencing alcohol-related death &amp; injuries at around 45 to 50 times those being experienced by non-Aboriginal women; sexual abuse was running around 8 times the rate of non-Indigenous society; incarceration rates were at least 10 times higher; serious alcohol &amp; cannabis abuse much higher; and on &amp; on it goes.&lt;br /&gt;&lt;br /&gt;Regardless of whether Neil James actually believes those who live in remote areas subscribe to crikey.com, the fact is that many of us do so, and often circulate the relevant articles and comments to many others around the communities. Somebody even regularly posts printed copies on the public notceboard at the Ntaria Top Shop Supermarket.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neil James makes a valid and long overdue point about the military role in the NT Intervention. I witnessed their arrival and activities in two communities, and there wasn&#8217;t a hint of aggression on their part, or any action which wasn&#8217;t purely logistical and supportive to the medical teams and public servants &#038; their programs. Certainly no signs of any weaponry either. </p>
<p>Most local Aboriginal people had no fear of the military, having seen them helping out on other occasions (for example, they helped with the logistics with Fred Hollows&#8217; early eye-health crusades across these same communities, projects which I also witnessed, as I was a volunteer working on those projects at the time). Many enjoyed talking to them (most of the troops were Aboriginal men &#038; women or other local Norforce members, often related or known to some of the local community people), playing football with them, taking them hunting &#038; to visit country, watching DVDs with them etc. </p>
<p>The characterisation of the communities as being fearful of the army is mostly misguided &#038; incorrect, and to the extent it is based on fact, I believe that this may have been the result of people in communities which were not visited early in the project, but who picked up on alarmist statements in the media by activists and sceptical commentators, amplified by community workers or members who were offended or anxious about various aspects of the Intervention. </p>
<p>For example, as a means of engendering alarm &#038; opposition, it possibly became easier to pick on the &#8220;military&#8221; component, than to try mobilising opposition to the extra policing that threatened many vested political, economic, ideological, grog running &#038; dope dealing interests, or getting people upset about some extra doctors and nurses coming around.</p>
<p>Miranda goes on to claim that &#8220;exagerated comments and claims by the Howard government &#8230; gave the impression every person in every community was drunk of their skulls and peadophile groups were running rampant&#8221;.  There was some exaggeration in the comments by Brough, Howard &#038; others, but it was very difficult to argue with their general thrust, as reliable statistics indicated that Aboriginal women were experiencing alcohol-related death &#038; injuries at around 45 to 50 times those being experienced by non-Aboriginal women; sexual abuse was running around 8 times the rate of non-Indigenous society; incarceration rates were at least 10 times higher; serious alcohol &#038; cannabis abuse much higher; and on &#038; on it goes.</p>
<p>Regardless of whether Neil James actually believes those who live in remote areas subscribe to crikey.com, the fact is that many of us do so, and often circulate the relevant articles and comments to many others around the communities. Somebody even regularly posts printed copies on the public notceboard at the Ntaria Top Shop Supermarket.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/06/20/comments-corrections-clarifications-and-cckups/#comment-19355</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-19355</guid>
		<description>It is a pity that when you use the word g=y you have to omit the a for email mangling purposes.  A testament to the predjudice inherent in the world that you have to do so.  Its not like you are saying something about something totally outrageous like support of violence.  Just the love that seems not to be able to type its name.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is a pity that when you use the word g=y you have to omit the a for email mangling purposes.  A testament to the predjudice inherent in the world that you have to do so.  Its not like you are saying something about something totally outrageous like support of violence.  Just the love that seems not to be able to type its name.</p>
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