Comments on: ACT gay registration: keeping queers out of the pound http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/ now with extra source Sun, 12 Feb 2012 09:16:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Connor Moran http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21580 Connor Moran Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21580 Well written Bernard. Smart Politics indeed. Not sure why you can't say what is really meant by that statement however; Smart Politics = For the majority. Well written Bernard. Smart Politics indeed. Not sure why you can’t say what is really meant by that statement however; Smart Politics = For the majority.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21581 Andrew Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21581 I totally agree. My point was simply that the assorted bible thumpers and foamers at the mouth continually exhort the government to govern for the majority rather than a tiny minority. It seems to me that the constituencies are a bit more balanced than that on the pro- and anti- marriage sides. To make my own position clear, I think it is absurd to have the state mediating access to an ecclesiastical rite. Given equality before the law, I am quite happy not to have anything to do with the institution of matrimony and, were I to do so, it would certainly not involve any religious overtones. I know many defacto straight couples who have felt this way for many years. I totally agree. My point was simply that the assorted bible thumpers and foamers at the mouth continually exhort the government to govern for the majority rather than a tiny minority. It seems to me that the constituencies are a bit more balanced than that on the pro- and anti- marriage sides.

To make my own position clear, I think it is absurd to have the state mediating access to an ecclesiastical rite. Given equality before the law, I am quite happy not to have anything to do with the institution of matrimony and, were I to do so, it would certainly not involve any religious overtones. I know many defacto straight couples who have felt this way for many years.

]]> By: John James http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21582 John James Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21582 I'm intrigued by Connor and Jock's perspectives. Connor has declared his atheism in previous postings but insists that he's part of the majority who would oppose same sex marriage. Jock says that the religious are calling the shots! Are they both living in Australia? I’m intrigued by Connor and Jock’s perspectives. Connor has declared his atheism in previous postings but insists that he’s part of the majority who would oppose same sex marriage. Jock says that the religious are calling the shots! Are they both living in Australia?

]]> By: John James # 3 http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21583 John James # 3 Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21583 Human nature is not a function of majority opinion. If tomorrow, the majority argue that Jews are sub human, we sense the majority would be wrong. There are truths/principles/ facts, call them what you will, that are universal and unchangeable. That is the foundation of the idea of "Universal Human Rights" and the foundation of the oft maligned concept of Natural Law, a law inscribed in our nature. Neither ''might' nor 'majority' makes some things right! Human nature is not a function of majority opinion. If tomorrow, the majority argue that Jews are sub human, we sense the majority would be wrong. There are truths/principles/ facts, call them what you will, that are universal and unchangeable. That is the foundation of the idea of “Universal Human Rights” and the foundation of the oft maligned concept of Natural Law, a law inscribed in our nature. Neither ”might’ nor ‘majority’ makes some things right!

]]> By: mike smith http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21584 mike smith Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21584 Andrew, if you asked for the percentage that "supported, or were not opposed to" the figures would be even higher. We don't have a "Moral Majority" here, we have a passive majority. Most of us just really don't care about it. Andrew, if you asked for the percentage that “supported, or were not opposed to” the figures would be even higher. We don’t have a “Moral Majority” here, we have a passive majority. Most of us just really don’t care about it.

]]> By: Connor Moran http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21585 Connor Moran Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21585 JJ, Yes, living in Australia. Strange place lately. Lots of minorities that think the majority ought to "bend" for them, even though we don't interfere with their lifestyle "choices", and have recently conceded the fixing of the more glaring inequalities. BUT THEY WANT MORE! The current crop of politicians, sniffing the mood of the majority (religious or not), have chosen to stop with the current changes. JJ, Yes, living in Australia. Strange place lately. Lots of minorities that think the majority ought to “bend” for them, even though we don’t interfere with their lifestyle “choices”, and have recently conceded the fixing of the more glaring inequalities. BUT THEY WANT MORE! The current crop of politicians, sniffing the mood of the majority (religious or not), have chosen to stop with the current changes.

]]> By: Andrew http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21586 Andrew Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21586 Not to inject factoids into this abstract debate- but when actually asked apparantly 71% of people support equality for gay couples and 57% agree with their right to marry. So, this would appear to be the majority. (Getup figures). Not to inject factoids into this abstract debate- but when actually asked apparantly 71% of people support equality for gay couples and 57% agree with their right to marry. So, this would appear to be the majority. (Getup figures).

]]> By: John James # 2 http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21587 John James # 2 Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21587 I suppose there are two points that strike me about Connor and Jock's responses. These debates are often characterised by the apologists for homosexual practice ( Jock's position is a good example ) as between religious and secular, between those guided by faith and those guided by reason. But here you have two people, both repudiating any religious influence, who have come to diametrically opposed conclusions. More especially, Connor, a non believer, and myself, a believer, agree. So the religion vs secular paradigm is insufficent to explain how we have each arrived at our positions. The same applies to all the debates in the public square. The other point that strikes me is more a question than an observation. Connor, have you arrived at your position simply because you want to be with the "majority' or because you think there something inherently "wrong" with homosexual practice? If in ten years time you found yourself in the minority would you change your view? I suppose there are two points that strike me about Connor and Jock’s responses. These debates are often characterised by the apologists for homosexual practice ( Jock’s position is a good example ) as between religious and secular, between those guided by faith and those guided by reason. But here you have two people, both repudiating any religious influence, who have come to diametrically opposed conclusions. More especially, Connor, a non believer, and myself, a believer, agree. So the religion vs secular paradigm is insufficent to explain how we have each arrived at our positions. The same applies to all the debates in the public square.
The other point that strikes me is more a question than an observation. Connor, have you arrived at your position simply because you want to be with the “majority’ or because you think there something inherently “wrong” with homosexual practice?
If in ten years time you found yourself in the minority would you change your view?

]]> By: Richard Lindsay http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21588 Richard Lindsay Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21588 It seems that Rudd is only prepared to accept 'practical' equality for gays and lesbians (which in practice falls short of full equality in a number of respects). The gay and lesbian communities may have to wait until Rudd (aka Howard lite) departs for equality in relationship recognition just as the First Australians had to wait for Howard to go before there was an apology. It seems that Rudd is only prepared to accept ‘practical’ equality for gays and lesbians (which in practice falls short of full equality in a number of respects). The gay and lesbian communities may have to wait until Rudd (aka Howard lite) departs for equality in relationship recognition just as the First Australians had to wait for Howard to go before there was an apology.

]]> By: Jock http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21589 Jock Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21589 Smart or not, it still shits me that religious groups influence policy in a secular nation Smart or not, it still shits me that religious groups influence policy in a secular nation

]]> By: Jock http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/05/05/act-gay-registration-keeping-queers-out-of-the-pound/#comment-21590 Jock Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-21590 I can only think that it is religious groups influencing the PM here as the federal government is happy to support equality in all areas except for gay marriage, an area where religious conservatives are very vocal. KRudd was very keen to advertise that he was practicing Catholic during the election to win some conservative vote, is this move not to alienate those voters and their lobby groups? I live in Canberra and work for a private company. As a resident in the ACT I was hoping that the ACT government would've been allowed to put through their new laws so that 6 months down the track we could show the rest of Australia that society hasn't fallen apart . I can only think that it is religious groups influencing the PM here as the federal government is happy to support equality in all areas except for gay marriage, an area where religious conservatives are very vocal. KRudd was very keen to advertise that he was practicing Catholic during the election to win some conservative vote, is this move not to alienate those voters and their lobby groups?

I live in Canberra and work for a private company. As a resident in the ACT I was hoping that the ACT government would’ve been allowed to put through their new laws so that 6 months down the track we could show the rest of Australia that society hasn’t fallen apart .

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