Comments on: My 2020 idea: Stop funding ineffective medical treatments http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/ now with extra source Sun, 12 Feb 2012 11:11:30 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: John http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-663 John Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-663 Sound ideas but it's not as if the PBAC is a perfect model. Look at Vioxx for example, which many of your colleagues prescribed by the bucketload despite it having less than marginal benefits over traditional and much cheaper anti-inflammatories. Medicare should insist on more robust and longer term evidence of superiority , not just equivalence, before subsidising expensive new treatments. Sound ideas but it’s not as if the PBAC is a perfect model. Look at Vioxx for example, which many of your colleagues prescribed by the bucketload despite it having less than marginal benefits over traditional and much cheaper anti-inflammatories. Medicare should insist on more robust and longer term evidence of superiority , not just equivalence, before subsidising expensive new treatments.

]]> By: Keith http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-664 Keith Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-664 Although professor Brooks makes perfectly valid points, the problems in the delivery of medical services are far more deep seated. While medical science and technology continue to charge ahead, the basic attitudes and the structures they support languish in the 18th. Century when practitioners were entrepreneurial barbers and alchemists and when the idea that one has any sort of right to survive illness or injury was the jealously guarded preserve of the powerful and wealthy - who were heavily soaked for the privilege. While the various parts of the medical hierarchy will resist to the last squeal any attempt to drag them into the 21st. Century, things will not improve until that occurs. May have to be the 22nd. Century by then. Although professor Brooks makes perfectly valid points, the problems in the delivery of medical services are far more deep seated. While medical science and technology continue to charge ahead, the basic attitudes and the structures they support languish in the 18th. Century when practitioners were entrepreneurial barbers and alchemists and when the idea that one has any sort of right to survive illness or injury was the jealously guarded preserve of the powerful and wealthy - who were heavily soaked for the privilege. While the various parts of the medical hierarchy will resist to the last squeal any attempt to drag them into the 21st. Century, things will not improve until that occurs. May have to be the 22nd. Century by then.

]]> By: Roslyn http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-665 Roslyn Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-665 Could not agree more re back surgery. Though a few years ago I would not have believed my exercise programme would be so effective. Its taken years but has fix all my back problems except for an occasional niggle when I sit badly or when I do too much wipper snipping. I am soo glad I don't have cement in the vertebra. Could not agree more re back surgery. Though a few years ago I would not have believed my exercise programme would be so effective. Its taken years but has fix all my back problems except for an occasional niggle when I sit badly or when I do too much wipper snipping. I am soo glad I don’t have cement in the vertebra.

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-666 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-666 Sounds like somebody with a particular axe to grind.......eh Dr. Brooks? Sounds like somebody with a particular axe to grind…….eh Dr. Brooks?

]]> By: adrian dabscheck http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-667 adrian dabscheck Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-667 Dr Brooks wrote a commendable article. I only hope he is allowed a hearing. I have recently left general practice to become a palliative care consultant and I am not aware that palliative medicine will have any voice at the summit. General Practice will be represented by a pharmacist! Dr Brooks wrote a commendable article. I only hope he is allowed a hearing.
I have recently left general practice to become a palliative care consultant and I am not aware that palliative medicine will have any voice at the summit.
General Practice will be represented by a pharmacist!

]]> By: Adam Elshaug http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-668 Adam Elshaug Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-668 Adam Elshaug Monday, 14 April 2008 3:41:08 PM Those interested in this topic might like to read the following papers that I have published in the area along with my colleagues A/Prof John Moss and Prof Janet Hiller: Elshaug AG, Hiller JE and Moss JR. Exploring Policymakers’ Perspectives on Disinvestment from Ineffective Health Care Practices. International Journal of Technology Assessment in Health Care, 2008; 24(1): 1-9. Please contact me if you are unable to access this paper online. Elshaug AG, Hiller JE, Tunis SR and Moss JR. Challenges in Australian policy processes for disinvestment from existing, ineffective health care practices. Australia and New Zealand Health Policy, 2007; 4: 23 (31 Oct 2007). FREE: http://www.anzhealthpolicy.com/content/4/1/ and an interview with Norman Swan on the ABC Radio National Health Report, available at (The second half is explicitly about disinvestment from ineffective health care): http://www.adelaide.edu.au/podcasts/interviews/health/ Adam Elshaug
Monday, 14 April 2008 3:41:08 PM
Those interested in this topic might like to read the following papers that I have published in the area along with my colleagues A/Prof John Moss and Prof Janet Hiller: Elshaug AG, Hiller JE and Moss JR. Exploring Policymakers’ Perspectives on Disinvestment from Ineffective Health Care Practices. International Journal of Technology Assessment in Health Care, 2008; 24(1): 1-9. Please contact me if you are unable to access this paper online. Elshaug AG, Hiller JE, Tunis SR and Moss JR. Challenges in Australian policy processes for disinvestment from existing, ineffective health care practices. Australia and New Zealand Health Policy, 2007; 4: 23 (31 Oct 2007). FREE: http://www.anzhealthpolicy.com/content/4/1/ and an interview with Norman Swan on the ABC Radio National Health Report, available at (The second half is explicitly about disinvestment from ineffective health care): http://www.adelaide.edu.au/podcasts/interviews/health/

]]> By: JamesK3 http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-669 JamesK3 Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-669 p.s. Apple pie is good.....Can I come? Can I? Hmmm..please? p.s. Apple pie is good…..Can I come? Can I? Hmmm..please?

]]> By: JamesK http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-670 JamesK Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-670 I will just deal with the "examples ,just of the top of my head" expressed in this article. 1. Nobody is admitted to an acute hospital for back pain. 2.Arthoscopies can be therapeutic but are often helpful diagnostically and in treatment planning. They are day day only procedures. Ask the relevant specialist doctors of their efficacy. 3.Spinal surgery is not for chronic back pain 4.Crush fractures of vertebra is a common cause of pain, disability and consequent massive health expenditure.Verebraplasty often works for severe pain and may have a role in preventing some of the dire consequences of crush fracture. If Dr. Brooks had his way we would still be performing open gall bladder operations rather than keyhole surgery. Dr. Brooks is more a health bureaucrat rather than a clinician, I suspect. He is talking nonsense. It has to be asked......Why? Would it be self serving perhaps? I will just deal with the “examples ,just of the top of my head” expressed in this article.
1. Nobody is admitted to an acute hospital for back pain.
2.Arthoscopies can be therapeutic but are often helpful diagnostically and in treatment planning. They are day day only procedures. Ask the relevant specialist doctors of their efficacy.
3.Spinal surgery is not for chronic back pain
4.Crush fractures of vertebra is a common cause of pain, disability and consequent massive health expenditure.Verebraplasty often works for severe pain and may have a role in preventing some of the dire consequences of crush fracture.
If Dr. Brooks had his way we would still be performing open gall bladder operations rather than keyhole surgery.
Dr. Brooks is more a health bureaucrat rather than a clinician, I suspect.
He is talking nonsense. It has to be asked……Why? Would it be self serving perhaps?

]]> By: JamesK2 http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-671 JamesK2 Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-671 I had already taken a dim view of this nonsense ideas summit. I am now positively concerned knowing that there are people of Dr. Brooks' obvious stature with the frightening ability to influence government policy with not an iota of common sense. I had already taken a dim view of this nonsense ideas summit. I am now positively concerned knowing that there are people of Dr. Brooks’ obvious stature with the frightening ability to influence government policy with not an iota of common sense.

]]> By: Judith Vinn http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-672 Judith Vinn Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-672 I have a burnt esophagus and need an endoscopy to keep an eye on it, an examination would not do.Cancer is a possible out-come if the burning keep's up, so ,some-thing's can't be changed just to save a few bob, I pay taxes I deserve the best. Thanking you J Vinn I have a burnt esophagus and need an endoscopy to keep an eye on it, an examination would not do.Cancer is a possible out-come if the burning keep’s up, so ,some-thing’s can’t be changed just to save a few bob, I pay taxes I deserve the best. Thanking you J Vinn

]]> By: Yolande lucire http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/14/my-2020-idea-stop-funding-ineffective-medical-treatments/#comment-673 Yolande lucire Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-673 Dear Peter, When you go to the Summit, ask them to look at treatments that are not only ineffective but also harmful in that they increase numbers of sick people needing treatment. It is easy to discover: Just google the name of the 'expert' advisor together with Pfizer, Eli Lilly, Sanofi Aventis etc, those being the names of the drug companies and the grants and prizes that doctor has won all come up. They seem to get honours as well: AM, AO are not unusual. This is what happens when governments listen to doctors who are getting benefits from the pharmaceutical companies, research funds and the like. If you can find time please read this paper on my website. http://www.lucire.com.au/documents/Re-focussing-Upstream-New-Generation-Drugs-and-Public-Health.aspx This would make sense if the goal of the state was to i produce an ever-growing market for a drug, or program. It is both shocking and unacceptable if the government reallly wants to provide an effective health ser Dear Peter,
When you go to the Summit, ask them to look at treatments that are not only ineffective but also harmful in that they increase numbers of sick people needing treatment.
It is easy to discover: Just google the name of the ‘expert’ advisor together with Pfizer, Eli Lilly, Sanofi Aventis etc, those being the names of the drug companies and the grants and prizes that doctor has won all come up. They seem to get honours as well: AM, AO are not unusual.
This is what happens when governments listen to doctors who are getting benefits from the pharmaceutical companies, research funds and the like.
If you can find time please read this paper on my website.
http://www.lucire.com.au/documents/Re-focussing-Upstream-New-Generation-Drugs-and-Public-Health.aspx

This would make sense if the goal of the state was to i produce an ever-growing market for a drug, or program.

It is both shocking and unacceptable if the government reallly wants to provide an effective health ser

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