Comments on: US08: Tibet, the torch and the mysterious (b)east http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/ now with extra source Tue, 24 Nov 2009 14:02:31 +1100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Lois Achimovich http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22102 Lois Achimovich Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22102 Couldn't agree more, Guy. When the US incarcerates more of its citizens per capita than any other nation and is continually at war to maintain its standard of living, it would seem to be a matter of the pot calling the kettle...something. And anyway, is it not a good idea to be in conversation, and in friendly competition on the sports field,with China, while defending the rights of protesters to make their point, as George argues? After all, with their meteoric development of coal-fired power stations, ably abetted by the coal farmers of Australia, we'd better start talking - fast. They hold our future in their hands. Couldn’t agree more, Guy. When the US incarcerates more of its citizens per capita than any other nation and is continually at war to maintain its standard of living, it would seem to be a matter of the pot calling the kettle…something. And anyway, is it not a good idea to be in conversation, and in friendly competition on the sports field,with China, while defending the rights of protesters to make their point, as George argues? After all, with their meteoric development of coal-fired power stations, ably abetted by the coal farmers of Australia, we’d better start talking - fast. They hold our future in their hands.

]]> By: goy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22103 goy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22103 I have a more recent source...10/4/08. go to "Risky political game..." by F. William Engdahl. http:www.globalresearch,ca/index,php?context=va&aid=8625 The cold war really never went away, it is just more sophisticated. I have a more recent source…10/4/08. go to “Risky political game…” by F. William Engdahl.
http:www.globalresearch,ca/index,php?context=va&aid=8625
The cold war really never went away, it is just more sophisticated.

]]> By: Tom McLoughlin http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22104 Tom McLoughlin Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22104 Sad, jaded, head up your own *rse. Nothing racist in protester quotes except your own tendentious wanky faux moral superiority. Democracy only exists through the exercise, like yours on any subject or government. It's an absolute outrage you talk down to readers (yeah like me) and people in SF who call for a fair go for Tibet. You've lost YOUR humanity. And your joke about reporting real news by mere accident is totally stale. Get real. You would be whining about civil liberties in a nano second if you tried in mainland China but because you take the contrary view by comparison with the overwhelming consensus in the West seems to suggest you are in fact playing the angles, maybe for an invite like career Lefty Meredith Burgmann recently in her report on New Matilda recently to North Korea. Pathetic sanitising of 2 million dead in their murderous famine of the late 90ies. Another dictatorship like propped up like ... Beijing, like Burma. No sense of timing, no perspective here ... Sad, jaded, head up your own *rse. Nothing racist in protester quotes except your own tendentious wanky faux moral superiority. Democracy only exists through the exercise, like yours on any subject or government. It’s an absolute outrage you talk down to readers (yeah like me) and people in SF who call for a fair go for Tibet. You’ve lost YOUR humanity. And your joke about reporting real news by mere accident is totally stale. Get real. You would be whining about civil liberties in a nano second if you tried in mainland China but because you take the contrary view by comparison with the overwhelming consensus in the West seems to suggest you are in fact playing the angles, maybe for an invite like career Lefty Meredith Burgmann recently in her report on New Matilda recently to North Korea. Pathetic sanitising of 2 million dead in their murderous famine of the late 90ies. Another dictatorship like propped up like … Beijing, like Burma. No sense of timing, no perspective here …

]]> By: george http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22105 george Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22105 I am also in SF. I did not see a mention of the air war.There were two light planes with banners pro China. Tibet will always be part of China and go Beijing go Olympics.There was also plane with SF supports Tibet and a pro Burma banner on a fourth aeroplane.What a great city.The athletes got to run the Torch the Chinese suporters ,who seemed to outnumber protesters, waved flags and the protesters highlighted the plight of Tibetans. If only we could be so tolerant in other parts of the world. I was inspired by the lack of an authoritarian insistence on the torch goes through the pre-specified route no matter what ! I am also in SF. I did not see a mention of the air war.There were two light planes with banners pro China. Tibet will always be part of China and go Beijing go Olympics.There was also plane with SF supports Tibet and a pro Burma banner on a fourth aeroplane.What a great city.The athletes got to run the Torch the Chinese suporters ,who seemed to outnumber protesters, waved flags and the protesters highlighted the plight of Tibetans. If only we could be so tolerant in other parts of the world. I was inspired by the lack of an authoritarian insistence on the torch goes through the pre-specified route no matter what !

]]> By: Tom McLoughlin http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22106 Tom McLoughlin Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22106 Gifted writer injured by toppling weight of own baggage? It's 2008, the IOC//Big Capital (including US) handshakes with China Inc, racketeers both, so a select few get rich, and bugger most everyone else and their environments (which is where I buy in especially). Beijing and IOC parade the torch seeking feedback, and they got it sincerely. What's more the whole Olympic raison d'etre today is leveraging a goal in this case China engagement with open societies. So let's do the open society thing not confected hangups. My 15cm of Sydney 2000 clippings in 2000 on all the 'drugs, bribes, lies and arrogance' shows how free press works. Enough of the sophistry. The real price of Beijing Olympics is a major injection of democratic critique, without fear or favour. By all means contrast the history of the western empire govts to China in terms of hypocrisy, and current geopolitik rivalry but that's not the civil society ngo's so why exactly are you falsely conflating the two? Gifted writer injured by toppling weight of own baggage? It’s 2008, the IOC//Big Capital (including US) handshakes with China Inc, racketeers both, so a select few get rich, and bugger most everyone else and their environments (which is where I buy in especially). Beijing and IOC parade the torch seeking feedback, and they got it sincerely. What’s more the whole Olympic raison d’etre today is leveraging a goal in this case China engagement with open societies. So let’s do the open society thing not confected hangups. My 15cm of Sydney 2000 clippings in 2000 on all the ‘drugs, bribes, lies and arrogance’ shows how free press works. Enough of the sophistry. The real price of Beijing Olympics is a major injection of democratic critique, without fear or favour. By all means contrast the history of the western empire govts to China in terms of hypocrisy, and current geopolitik rivalry but that’s not the civil society ngo’s so why exactly are you falsely conflating the two?

]]> By: guy rundle http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22107 guy rundle Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22107 Many of the comments here serve no more than to indicate the role China now plays in bucking up jaded Western political morality - a replacement for invading Iraq now that that undoubted disaster has lost all capacity to reassure us that we're the good guys. Most instructive in this respect is the justification of the British/Australian role in the Malayan war (called an emergency, so that British plantation owners wouldn't lose their Lloyds insurance claims). This was an attempt to create a pseudo-independent client state, waging a vicious war against anyone inconvenient to British interests, and including the summary execution of insurgents and civilians, in which Australian troops participated. Clearly fondness for the empire on which the sun never set (and the blood never dried) dies hard, as does our ability to swallow ideology whole. Many of the comments here serve no more than to indicate the role China now plays in bucking up jaded Western political morality - a replacement for invading Iraq now that that undoubted disaster has lost all capacity to reassure us that we’re the good guys.

Most instructive in this respect is the justification of the British/Australian role in the Malayan war (called an emergency, so that British plantation owners wouldn’t lose their Lloyds insurance claims). This was an attempt to create a pseudo-independent client state, waging a vicious war against anyone inconvenient to British interests, and including the summary execution of insurgents and civilians, in which Australian troops participated.

Clearly fondness for the empire on which the sun never set (and the blood never dried) dies hard, as does our ability to swallow ideology whole.

]]> By: Connor Moran http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22108 Connor Moran Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22108 I agree with Tom McL. Well done Guy, you could have said that you see human rights hypocrisy in many places but instead managed to obscure the important point to something verging on Doublethink. D minus. I agree with Tom McL. Well done Guy, you could have said that you see human rights hypocrisy in many places but instead managed to obscure the important point to something verging on Doublethink. D minus.

]]> By: Tom McL http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22109 Tom McL Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22109 By the by it's arguably a false distinction to say China Inc is not in Iraq by proxy. Because where Iran's interests go, so does China which has a US$70 billion oil supply deal with Beijing. Hence China conveniently shot a 'faulty' weather satellite out of space last January 08 to demonstrate to the US they didn't buy their contemporaneous (bogus) 'Gulf of Tomkin' gambit in the Arabian Gulf getting very close to an excuse to bomb Iranian military facilities. The message was clear - we can knock out your international spy/communication satelillites to protect our oil supply. The USA returned the demonstration favour a few weeks ago on the (bogus) claim their faulty satellite was a pollution risk (from a country that happily tests nukes and DU filth everywhere in Bosnia, Gulf War 1 and 2. Conclusion - in the great game of oil for geopolitik economic survival/superiority China is riding Iraq like every other vested interest. What a f*cking complex nightmare. Drive one to drink - tea! By the by it’s arguably a false distinction to say China Inc is not in Iraq by proxy. Because where Iran’s interests go, so does China which has a US$70 billion oil supply deal with Beijing. Hence China conveniently shot a ‘faulty’ weather satellite out of space last January 08 to demonstrate to the US they didn’t buy their contemporaneous (bogus) ‘Gulf of Tomkin’ gambit in the Arabian Gulf getting very close to an excuse to bomb Iranian military facilities. The message was clear - we can knock out your international spy/communication satelillites to protect our oil supply. The USA returned the demonstration favour a few weeks ago on the (bogus) claim their faulty satellite was a pollution risk (from a country that happily tests nukes and DU filth everywhere in Bosnia, Gulf War 1 and 2. Conclusion - in the great game of oil for geopolitik economic survival/superiority China is riding Iraq like every other vested interest. What a f*cking complex nightmare. Drive one to drink - tea!

]]> By: Michael Woodhead http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22110 Michael Woodhead Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22110 You say Australia helped the Brits "in a brutal colonial war against Malaysian independence". It was a counter-insurgency campaign that Britain conducted AFTER it announced in 1949 its intention to grant Malayan independence and during which it gained the overwhelming support of Malays, Indians and later the moderate Chinese against the misnamed "Malayan Peoples Liberation Army" (which was overwhelmingly Chinese). Elections took place in 1952 and independence came in 57 - some war against "Malaysian" independence! Malaysia didn't even come into being until 1963, when Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore joined Malaya). You say Australia helped the Brits “in a brutal colonial war against Malaysian independence”. It was a counter-insurgency campaign that Britain conducted AFTER it announced in 1949 its intention to grant Malayan independence and during which it gained the overwhelming support of Malays, Indians and later the moderate Chinese against the misnamed “Malayan Peoples Liberation Army” (which was overwhelmingly Chinese). Elections took place in 1952 and independence came in 57 - some war against “Malaysian” independence! Malaysia didn’t even come into being until 1963, when Sabah, Sarawak and Singapore joined Malaya).

]]> By: Observer http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22111 Observer Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22111 Maybe the Palestinians need to get a torch too? Maybe the Palestinians need to get a torch too?

]]> By: Colin Jones http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22112 Colin Jones Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22112 I'll wager the West Papuans are hoping Indonesia gets the 2016 Olympics! I’ll wager the West Papuans are hoping Indonesia gets the 2016 Olympics!

]]> By: sean connelley http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22113 sean connelley Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22113 Lucky for the Timorese in 1975 that they didn't have any British plantation owners insured by Lloyds. God knows what would have happened. Lucky for the Timorese in 1975 that they didn’t have any British plantation owners insured by Lloyds. God knows what would have happened.

]]> By: barca http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22114 barca Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22114 Now in Tibet the Tibetan people is not even half of the population. So if we allow the Tibetan people to self-determine and allow Tibet to be separated from China, why dont all White Australians also sail back to Europe and return the land to the aboriginal people? Oh maybe even better when White Australians leave they give all their property to the aboriginal people for the past use of THEIR land? I think those White Australians yelling out for Tibet Independent are like Hollywood Stars, who live in big mansions, calling for reducing CO2 emission... Now in Tibet the Tibetan people is not even half of the population. So if we allow the Tibetan people to self-determine and allow Tibet to be separated from China, why dont all White Australians also sail back to Europe and return the land to the aboriginal people? Oh maybe even better when White Australians leave they give all their property to the aboriginal people for the past use of THEIR land?

I think those White Australians yelling out for Tibet Independent are like Hollywood Stars, who live in big mansions, calling for reducing CO2 emission…

]]> By: Goy http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22115 Goy Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22115 Guy, you win gold for clear thinking. Once it became clear that the CIA master-minded the 1952 Tibet uprising , the Colorado training camp for Tibetan terrorists, and that D.Lama was on the CIA payroll, also its role in taking over a Chinese communication satellite for the F.L.Gong for a week, all bets are off for the Chinese. These skunk works do nothing for the Tibetans and they are the ones that suffer. I think the protesters should go to Tibet and fight the Chinese themselves and and not make things more difficult for the local Tibetans. Guy, you win gold for clear thinking. Once it became clear that the CIA master-minded the 1952 Tibet uprising , the Colorado training camp for Tibetan terrorists, and that D.Lama was on the CIA payroll, also its role in taking over a Chinese communication satellite for the F.L.Gong for a week, all bets are off for the Chinese. These skunk works do nothing for the Tibetans and they are the ones that suffer. I think the protesters should go to Tibet and fight the Chinese themselves and and not make things more difficult for the local Tibetans.

]]> By: TomMcL http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22116 TomMcL Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22116 All interesting and no doubt contentious grist but the fact is there is no free press or freedom of religion in Tibet or Beijing, and the Olympics is about opening up. As cynical and wicked as the USA and its No Such Agency/Office of Strategic Services has been in every cold war proxy forum the world over (at least 50 countries including Australia) we get to see the pictures, debate here on the event du jour being th eapproaching Olympics biggest circus every 4 years. That's the point. Central Chinese Govt must become an open society just as Watergate closed down Nixon. As for the terror bogey man story running today readers may want to inform themselves by looking at the SBS interview here of visit to Australia: "INTERVIEW WITH REBIYA KADEER" 5th March 08 http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/interview_with_rebiya_kadeer_542091 That's what an open democracy can do for yer, may it always be so here. Our birthright. All interesting and no doubt contentious grist but the fact is there is no free press or freedom of religion in Tibet or Beijing, and the Olympics is about opening up. As cynical and wicked as the USA and its No Such Agency/Office of Strategic Services has been in every cold war proxy forum the world over (at least 50 countries including Australia) we get to see the pictures, debate here on the event du jour being th eapproaching Olympics biggest circus every 4 years. That’s the point. Central Chinese Govt must become an open society just as Watergate closed down Nixon. As for the terror bogey man story running today readers may want to inform themselves by looking at the SBS interview here of visit to Australia: “INTERVIEW WITH REBIYA KADEER” 5th March 08 http://news.sbs.com.au/dateline/interview_with_rebiya_kadeer_542091
That’s what an open democracy can do for yer, may it always be so here. Our birthright.

]]> By: sean connelley http://www.crikey.com.au/2008/04/10/us08-tibet-the-torch-and-the-mysterious-beast/#comment-22117 sean connelley Thu, 01 Jan 1970 10:00:00 +0000 #comment-22117 Agree with Michael. About time you came home Guy. You're starting to lose it. Agree with Michael. About time you came home Guy. You’re starting to lose it.

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